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Featured When Jesus Comes Back...What Will He Come Back As?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Sunstone, Jul 2, 2018.

  1. Quagmire

    Quagmire Imaginary talking monkey
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    I think he'll come back as a muppet, just to help us ease into the idea.

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I did not mean that the texts contradict one another; I meant that the Christians and others who are reading the same texts interpret them differently. So who can say whose comprehension is the correct vs. the faulty one?
    I can understand what you mean about Paul after reading on that link. Paul completely contradicts what Jesus said. However, I do not have much faith in any of the Bible as an accurate recording of God’s Word simply because that is logically impossible given how the Bible came into existence, especially given how many contradictions there are throughout.

    I understand why people still cling to the Bible, because what else do they have? Well, even if they do not want to believe in a religion as new as Baha'i, there is the Qur'an which I consider God's Word, and much more authentic and useful than the Bible. It is of course a newer revelation from God.
    Thanks. Such prophecies can mean many different things to different people. There is certainly no way to know exactly what they refer to, what is symbolic and what is literal.

    I like this article I received a few weeks ago: Do Prophecies Prove Anything?
     
  3. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Yes, the Kingdom is heavenly.
    Jesus was addressing the Pharisees. They certainly didn’t have any Kingdom of God ‘within’ them.

    These other versions word it differently (from BibleHub):

    New International Version
    “nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is in your midst."

    New Living Translation
    “You won't be able to say, 'Here it is!' or 'It's over there!' For the Kingdom of God is already among you."

    English Standard Version
    “nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”

    Berean Study Bible
    “Nor will people say, 'Look, here it is,' or 'There it is.' For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst."

    As King-Designate, Jesus represented the Kingdom. It’s an actual government that will fulfill Jehovah’s main purposes: destroying God’s enemies, vindicating His sovereignty, and re-establishing control over this Earth.
    Daniel 2:44; Isaiah 9:6-7; 1 Corinthians 15:24-28; Matthew 6:9-10; Revelation 21:3-4....”I heard a voice from the throne say: ‘Look! The tent of God is with mankind.....And death will be no more...

    Really, a fulfillment to the Our Father Prayer.
     
  4. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    That’s a good question!

    You know how I’d answer?
    The ones who are most obedient to God and Jesus! (Matthew 7:21). A person cannot get accurate knowledge of the Bible by himself, ie., without help from God. Luke 10:21 is pretty clear. It is “hidden” from most.
     
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  5. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    With careful analysis we can show what things are meant to be objectively with a high percentage of probability, and then determine what is the most likely based on all the evidence.
    Having shown many contradictions, and errors; still can show the Bible as a prophetic book that is taking place as written.
    They have multiple religions around the world, and can read all of them to use a scientific method of analysis; rather than be naive to accept only one book.
    If one understands the first precepts in the foundation material, then it is harder for someone to accept faulty precepts that are built on top later.
    With enough questioning what the text says, and looking for additional clarification within the original material first, we can have a better understanding than people rewriting it to fit later.

    Defining symbolic and literal is something done once we've put most of the jigsaw together; start with the bits we can identify first, and then after when we see the bigger picture it becomes clearer.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  6. Prestor John

    Prestor John Well-Known Member

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    When He comes again, Jesus Christ will be the Resurrected Lord as described in the scriptures.

    He will have a physical body of flesh and bone, yet it will be glorified and perfected exempting, of course, the prints of the nails in His hands, wrists and feet.

    He will descend from the above as promised in the scriptures.

    All upon the Earth will be witness to His coming and all shall know Him and confess that He is the Christ, the one true God, Lord of all.
     
  7. Mox

    Mox Dr Green Fingers

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    Everyone knows God is British. :D
     
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  8. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Actually God has a name in every culture, and the word 'God' was originally from the Germanic language.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
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  9. Mox

    Mox Dr Green Fingers

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    English is a Germanic language. :p
     
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  10. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I believe we are already living in that interesting time... No more my religion is better than yours... we are all one human family.

    “The Purpose of the one true God, exalted be His glory, in revealing Himself unto men is to lay bare those gems that lie hidden within the mine of their true and inmost selves. That the divers communions of the earth, and the manifold systems of religious belief, should never be allowed to foster the feelings of animosity among men, is, in this Day, of the essence of the Faith of God and His Religion. These principles and laws, these firmly-established and mighty systems, have proceeded from one Source, and are the rays of one Light. That they differ one from another is to be attributed to the varying requirements of the ages in which they were promulgated.........

    The utterance of God is a lamp, whose light is these words: Ye are the fruits of one tree, and the leaves of one branch. Deal ye one with another with the utmost love and harmony, with friendliness and fellowship. He Who is the Day Star of Truth beareth Me witness! So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth. The one true God, He Who knoweth all things, Himself testifieth to the truth of these words.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 287-288
     
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  11. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I do not think that we can use logic and math to determine what is most likely to be the Truth from God. In my opinion. ;)
    Do you believe it is still taking place now? If so, how?

    I believe that Muhammad was the Seal of the Prophets, the last Prophet in the Prophetic Cycle of religion that began with Adam. The Bab ushered in a whole new religious cycle called the Cycle of Fulfillment (Baha’i Cycle). There will be more religious cycles in the distant future just as there were religious cycles before the Adamic Cycle.
    What do you mean, read all of the religions to use a scientific method of analysis?
    I agree we do not have to accept only one book, since they all came from the same source, God.

    “The Purpose of the one true God, exalted be His glory, in revealing Himself unto men is to lay bare those gems that lie hidden within the mine of their true and inmost selves. That the divers communions of the earth, and the manifold systems of religious belief, should never be allowed to foster the feelings of animosity among men, is, in this Day, of the essence of the Faith of God and His Religion. These principles and laws, these firmly-established and mighty systems, have proceeded from one Source, and are the rays of one Light. That they differ one from another is to be attributed to the varying requirements of the ages in which they were promulgated.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 287-288

    However, I believe that only one religion is “current” at a time and that the primary messages and the social teachings and laws of the older religions are no longer useful because they do not address the needs of present day society. I believe we need to be concerned about all of humanity and the needs of the present times into the future, not just what we want to believe in because it appeals to us or because it is familiar.

    “The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213
    I do not know what you mean by that. What are the first precepts and what is the foundation material as they apply to scriptures? o_O
    What do you think you are going to figure out by reading these vague prophecies? How can anyone possibly know what they mean in terms of actual events that will take place thousands of years in the future?I consider this an exercise in futility. How long are people going to wait for the Messiah to return simply because they think they have the correct interpretation of the prophecies and everything has to unfold just as they believe it will?

    The prophecies were not intended to be understood until the events actually took place. Then we can read them in retrospect and see if they fit the events or places that are referred to in the prophecies.

    Nobody can rewrite the Bible to fit later. They can only read the prophecies and try to determine if they have unfolded as they are written. Of course anyone can say that is not what it meant because the prophecies can mean more than one thing. However, when you have so many OT and NT prophecies pointing straight to Baha’u’llah, that is difficult to refute.

    So what I see Jews and Christians doing is trying to say that certain prophecies mean what they want them to mean so they can have the Messiah and the Messianic Age made in their own image... They want to be the “chosen ones” that the prophecies refer to. Have you ever noticed how differently Christians believe about the return of Jesus and the time of the end? They cannot all be right since they contradict each other. One could be right and all the others wrong, but it is more likely that they are all wrong.
    Anything can be made out of those puzzle pieces, anything. They do not only go together one way. There is no reason to believe any one puzzle that is made is any more accurate than any other puzzle.

    In other words, you might believe that you have the big picture correct and it could be totally wrong because of the way you put the pieces together. Also, all it takes is for a verse or verses to have been incorrectly recorded in the Bible and the whole puzzle is messed up.
     
  12. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    If Jesus descends as you say from above where is it that He will be descending from? How could a physical body of flesh and bone exist above the earth’s atmosphere? How will “everyone on Earth” see Jesus if He lands at one geographical location? :confused:
     
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  13. Prestor John

    Prestor John Well-Known Member

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    There are accounts recorded in the scriptures of the faithful seeing God upon His throne while the Lord Jesus Christ stood at His right-hand.

    I would therefore assume, based on these scriptural testimonies and other revelations, that He will descend from the throne of the Father.

    Any suggestion about the location of the Father's throne would be pure speculation, save for the fact that it is not upon the Earth.
    The physical bodies enjoyed by Resurrected Beings are perfected and glorified.

    They do not suffer from any of the frailties exhibited by mortal bodies of flesh and blood.

    The Father and the Son are both Resurrected Beings, perfect and glorified, along with all others who have become heirs of God through Christ and have received their salvation and exaltation.
    Everyone upon the Earth have both seen the rays of the Sun and have felt its influence in the world.

    We are all aware of it, even though the Sun is in a fixed location, relative to us.

    When Christ comes again, His glory and brilliance will make the Sun seem dark.

    Everyone will know when He returns. Everyone will see and feel His return. Everyone will know Him for who and what He is.
     
    #53 Prestor John, Jul 4, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
  14. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    God is a CPU which creates reality at a quantum level; thus everything in reality is mathematically equatable, else we're not being logical with the info...

    Here is a series of logic/rational equations turned into math.
    Where Christianity contradicts (John, Paul, and Simon), is purposely prophesied in the Tanakh.
    Tho we can question Muhammad being a seal after the canonization (edits); the Quran made clear to state the last prophet is only through arrogance.

    40:34-35 And Joseph had already come to you before with clear proofs, but you remained in doubt of that which he brought to you, until when he died, you said, 'Never will Allah send a messenger after him.' Thus does Allah leave astray he who is a transgressor and skeptic." Those who dispute concerning the signs of Allah without an authority having come to them - great is hatred [of them] in the sight of Allah and in the sight of those who have believed. Thus does Allah seal over every heart [belonging to] an arrogant tyrant.
    In science if we have a theory/experiment, we do multiple of the same experiment to compare results; not only have one example, and then build the whole hypothesis on that.

    Thus we can examine each religious texts (data), to compare against other religions for missing understandings, then we can build a logical hypothesis with a consensus of majority data.
    In trace routing errors in code/electronic/science/etc, we establish the problems in the system by going back to the source of the chain...

    So in this we go back to the Torah, to establish the earlier ideas presented by the Psalms & the Prophets, before ever assessing the New Testament, and then what came after that.
    Vague prophecies can be used like tracing paper laid on top of each other, which becomes clearer as each prophet aligns with the others, and then only someone who hasn't properly looked will miss the details.
    Because we can clearly show all criteria within the prophecies fitting with historical references, and events that are still taking place.
    Some people base their whole religion on waiting... Some are more discerning, and are merely seeing the signs unfolding, and know it will happen in time.
    This is part of the problem lousy exegesis by Jews, Muslims, Christians, and Baha'i...

    Zechariah 11 for example is clear as day about the 2nd temple destruction, and yet most don't pay attention to contexts.
    Aware of each religious belief structure, and where they've been deliberately set up, as they're 'quick to the spoils, and hasten to the prey' (Isaiah 8, Zechariah 5); yet have little wisdom to see what is really taking place.
    Which is our biggest problem with Baha'i, a jigsaw puzzle has edges, each only aligns one way, and Baha'i have cut off the edges, so it all fits every way, and ignore the contexts.
    Which is where we use mathematical reasoning, and have a lower probability to allow for discrepancies; not base everything on a single reference, yet use a scientific method.

    In my opinion.
    :innocent:
     
  15. `mud

    `mud Just old
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    And there will be trumpets blaring everywhere !!
    REALLY !....give me a break !
     
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  16. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    He came back as the girl who hung herself in a concentration camp just recently.
     
  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    So how could we here on earth see God upon His throne while the Lord Jesus Christ stands at His right-hand? Those scriptures must apply to those faithful who have already ascended to heaven.
    So what Christians believe in and want is to have are all the benefits of a physical body but without any of the hassles. I guess this is based upon what you believe that Jesus had after he resurrected, eating and drinking, etc.

    This is quite a fantasy that Christians have concocted.

    God does not need to be resurrected because God cannot die.
    That is quite a fantastic belief. There is no reason to believe that Jesus will return that way. It is not in the Bible. It is just something some Christians interpreted certain verses to mean.

    2 Peter 3:10-13 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

    Obviously these verses are symbolic, not literal. Christ will return like a thief in the night, which means He will come and go without anyone recognizing Him, not that all will see Him and know Him for who He is. The new heavens and a new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness symbolizes what this world will be like when the Kingdom of God is built by humans who follow the teachings and laws of Christ when He returns.
     
  18. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Where did you get the idea that God is a CPU?
    But how is that taking place now?
    40:34-35 And Joseph had already come to you before with clear proofs, but you remained in doubt of that which he brought to you, until when he died, you said, 'Never will Allah send a messenger after him.' Thus does Allah leave astray he who is a transgressor and skeptic." Those who dispute concerning the signs of Allah without an authority having come to them - great is hatred [of them] in the sight of Allah and in the sight of those who have believed. Thus does Allah seal over every heart [belonging to] an arrogant tyrant.

    I can understand how that is arrogant, believing Muhammad is the last Prophet, but how is that any different from what Jews and Christians believe about their religion being the BEST and the LAST?
    Who are we? Who is qualified to examine each religious texts (data) and to compare against other religions for missing understandings?
    It makes sense to go back to the Torah before looking at the New Testament which is fraught with problems.
    I understand how it would become clearer by laying them on top of each other but I still do not think you can know the details of what will transpire in the future.
    I hope you can understand that prophecies are open to many different interpretations.

    Let me know when you have that all figured out. :)
    And some know that it already happened... :oops:
    That chapter is about as clear as mud. :oops:

    I do not get any second temple destruction out of that.

    People read it with their own preconceived ideas of what they expect from whatever verses they have read and then they interpret it according to what they want it to mean. That is one reason the Jews did not recognize Jesus as the Messiah, they are so blind.
    That is certainly true for some belief structures.
    Baha’u’llah either was or was not the Messiah, the return of Christ. Trying to disprove that by using prophecies from old scriptures won’t work because nobody can know exactly what those mean. Where did Jesus or any Prophet say to use the prophecies to determine who the Messiah was going to be? Jesus said we would know a Prophet by His fruits. Jesus said to be watching.
    What contexts do the Baha'is ignore?
    Again, who are we? Who is using this scientific method?
     
  19. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Our NDE, cross referenced by multiple religious texts, and the simulated reality theory... The Matrix film came out after.
    Yeshua came to set a Snare to Catch out the Ravenous beings for them all to be placed in the Lake of Fire...

    Where the "Vultures gather" on who is to be removed (Luke 17:20-37), is a specific reference to Isaiah 34.
    It isn't different Judaism arrogantly refuse any new external instruction, and Christians refuse any corrections.
    We is any person who reads it, and is capable of using the supplied method.
    Only someone with first hand experience, and with knowledge before looking at it.... I.e Someone sent from Heaven to do so.
    If we study the prophecies, we see they relay this method; as only someone seeking will find it (Matthew 7:8).
    Yeshua's reason for coming, the Biblical deception, Christianity and Islam being false; there are too many things to list.
    Some people have a more scientific mind, and will do this automatically.

    In my opinion.
    :innocent:
     
    #59 wizanda, Jul 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  20. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe He will come back as the same Jesus I have in me now only with His glorified body. The Qu'ran says He will get everyone straightened out as to what they should believe.
     
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