1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured When Jesus Comes Back...What Will He Come Back As?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Sunstone, Jul 2, 2018.

  1. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    76,126
    Ratings:
    +37,789
    Religion:
    Non-Theistic Mysticism
    Like most sensible people on this planet, I know that when Jesus comes back, he will be an American, and not just an American, but an Evangelical American, and not just an Evangelical American, but an Evangelical American of the Dominionist variety -- for how could he otherwise avoid being a heretic?

    So, would you be disappointed if Jesus failed to come back as a member of your religion and/or denomination of your religion? Do you even expect him back as a Christian of any sort?

    Beyond that, what other things is he likely to come back as, in your best guess?
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2014
    Messages:
    15,010
    Ratings:
    +13,811
    Religion:
    Humanist
    He's already back, grabbing p*ssies and wearing ridiculous orange hair.
     
    • Funny Funny x 8
  3. idav

    idav Being
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    18,974
    Ratings:
    +3,301
    Religion:
    Pantheist
    It’s kind kid strange because the messiah is supposed to be crowned and implement peace yet some of non-Jewish religious offfshoots seem to believe Jesus(messiah) is coming back as a warlord ready to kill and slaughter all evil doers and possibly more. I’m not really sure that’s what Judaism had that in mind though their version of God is not exactly flowers and puppies so it isn’t farfetched to say Jesus would implement peace through war and pure force. I always think of a messiah as some force taking away the need for any pain or fear thus no more need to fight.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  4. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    40,720
    Ratings:
    +13,170
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Christ came back in the Person of Baha’u’llah. This video is a brief description on how Bahá'u'lláh, the Founder of the Baha'i Faith fulfils prophecies from the Bible. For more in depth study, please refer to Thief in the Night by William Sears

     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  5. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,986
    Ratings:
    +3,807
    Religion:
    Agnostic-Monotheist
    "There will always be a battlefield"

    -Lancelot King Arthur Movie (2004)

    It would appear in theology to maintain the balance of power good must combat evil over and over. The messiah is no exception.
     
    #5 Epic Beard Man, Jul 2, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
  6. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,986
    Ratings:
    +3,807
    Religion:
    Agnostic-Monotheist
    Yeshua.jpg

    I like this Jesus and I think if or when he returns (if he exists) would be some wise man who has the gift of not only as a prolific writer, but as a speaker who will galvanize the people.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. Mox

    Mox Dr Green Fingers

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    534
    Ratings:
    +316
    Religion:
    Panentheistic Gnostic
    Jesus is coming.

    Look busy.

    If Jesus does come back, boy, is he going to be pissed with a certain group of people who claim to follow his way.

    Popcorn and ice cold Lemon Fanta, will be the order of that day. Oh yea and verily.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    40,720
    Ratings:
    +13,170
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    That's true... the Messiah was the Prince of Peace, a force taking away the need for any pain or fear thus no more need for war.

    Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2015
    Messages:
    9,179
    Ratings:
    +5,388
    Religion:
    Christian
    Lol. It’s been a long time since I heard that! Still funny!
    Grief, ain’t that the truth?! He is, now.

    Lemon? I’d prefer Grapico.....or Cheerwine. Is that ok?
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
  10. Cacotopia

    Cacotopia Let's go full Trottle

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    Messages:
    2,427
    Ratings:
    +1,385
    Religion:
    Atheist
    a Velociraptor.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. Vouthon

    Vouthon Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    3,951
    Ratings:
    +4,800
    Religion:
    Catholic Christianity
    @Sunstone for Catholics and Orthodox Christians, the idea of Jesus returning to earth to live out another human life with a ministry and reign as some kind of temporal king (as Protestant millenialists and Muslims believe) is heresy.

    The Gospel of John, after all, has Jesus say that "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest" (John 18:36). We are, however, also told "neither shall people say, Lo! here, or lo! there; for lo! the Kingdom of God is within you." (Luke 17:21)

    St. Louis de Montfort insisted that the kingdom of Jesus - when His will shall be done on earth as in heaven - will one day before the End of Time be manifested more perfectly "in the hearts" (TD 113) or "in our soul" (TD 68) of human beings, in such a manner that Jesus will reign when, by the intervention of Mary, he is known, loved, and served by all people (TD 49).

    Montfort's entire spirituality - which has been approved as doctrinally sound by the Church - has as its goal the establishment of the kingdom of Christ on earth in this way:


    "‘When will that happy day come . . . when God’s Mother is enthroned in men’s hearts as Queen, subjecting them to the dominion of her great and princely Son?’" (TD 217).​


    He states that this shall be accomplished through the "apostles of the end times," two mighty saints:


    "Toward the End of Time, God will raise up great men full of the Holy Spirit and imbued with the spirit of Mary, through whom this powerful Sovereign will work great wonders in the world, so as to destroy sin and to establish the Kingdom of Jesus Christ, her Son, upon the ruins of the kingdom of this corrupt world...

    Almighty God and his holy Mother are to raise up great saints who will surpass in holiness most saints… Such are the great men who are to come. By the will of God, Mary is to prepare them to extend his rule...

    It was through the blessed Virgin Mary that Jesus Christ came into the world, and it is also through her that he must reign in the world...

    Wherever they preach, they will leave behind them nothing but the gold of love, which is the fulfillment of the whole law...

    Such are the great men who are to come. But when and how will this come about? Only God knows. For our part we must yearn and wait for it in silence and in prayer: "I have waited and waited"...”

    (Secret of Mary, 59 This End of Time is no other than the Second Coming of Christ. (SM 58) and True Devotion 58)


    This relates to the concept of the "Social Reign of Christ" propagated by Pope Pius XI in his 1925 Encyclical, Quas Primas, which established the feast of Christ the King, where he stated:


    http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xi...as-primas.html


    "Thus the empire of our Redeemer embraces all men...

    When once men recognize, that Christ is King, society will at last receive the great blessings of real liberty, well-ordered discipline, peace and harmony...The result will be a stable peace and tranquility, for there will be no longer any cause of discontent...

    Peace and harmony, too, will result; for with the spread and the universal extent of the kingdom of Christ men will become more and more conscious of the link that binds them together, and thus many conflicts will be either prevented entirely or at least their bitterness will be diminished.

    If the kingdom of Christ, then, receives, as it should, all nations under its way, there seems no reason why we should despair of seeing that peace which the King of Peace came to bring on earth...

    Oh, what happiness would be Ours if all men, individuals, families, and nations, would but let themselves be governed by Christ!

    “Then at length,” to use the words addressed by our predecessor, Pope Leo XIII, twenty-five years ago to the bishops of the Universal Church, “then at length will many evils be cured; then will the law regain its former authority; peace with all its blessings be restored. Men will sheathe their swords and lay down their arms when all freely acknowledge and obey the authority of Christ, and every tongue confesses that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.”


    As you can see, Pius XI believed that the "Peace of Christ in the Kingdom of Christ" really would be established in men's hearts and souls throughout the entire world by the intercession of His Most Blessed Mother and that this would lead to, as Pope Pius notes: "that peace which the King of Peace came to bring on earth...for with the spread and the universal extent of the kingdom of Christ men will become more and more conscious of the link that binds them together, and thus many conflicts will be either prevented entirely or at least their bitterness will be diminished."

    In our understanding Christ will not return in person to earth, rather the Kingdom of God, the New Jerusalem, will be established through the the formation of the new universe - or new "heaven and earth".

    But prior to the dissolution of the world and the Antichrist, we may experience a social reign of Christ within the hearts of all humanity, whereby wars will be either significantly reduced or vanish and the entire world will discover unity for a time, before it ends.

    So this doesn't mean that we reject out-of-hand the idea of temporal peace on earth that millenial Protestantism, Judaism, Islam and the Baha'i Faith believe that the Messiah will or has already inaugurated.

    We just reject the idea that Christ will personally implement and reign over this when he comes. Any such epoch must precede both the Second Coming and the final persecution.

    In the 13th century, St. Bonaventure theorized that there was "progression" in our understanding of the deposit of faith which would at some stage lead the Church to become an "ecclesia contemplativa", in which the mystical union St. Francis of Assisi had with Christ would become the general state of many or even most believers.

    St. Bonaventure explains this in his, 'Analogies On The Six Days'. Here St. Bonaventure argues that each of the days of creation in Genesis prefigures one of the so-called seven ages of the Old Covenant and each of these ages in turn prefigures one of the seven ages of the New Covenant.

    He divides history before and after Christ into seven ages first of Israel and then of New Israel, the Church. Christ, he argues, is the Tree of Life at the centre of this concordance between the Two Testaments. In this way, he rejects Joachim of Fiore's divisions into aged of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It's one God acting in one sacred narrative of history.

    For example, the Old Covenant ages include the fifth age, ‘the age of kingly glory’ and the sixth age ‘the age of the prophetic voice’. The title of the New Covenant age corresponding to the latter is the age of clara doctrina – clear doctrine. It started with Charlemagne.

    In Bonaventure’s schema what follows next is the seventh ‘age of quiet’, prefigured by the ‘age of half-way rest’ in the Old Testament, when the Jews were delivered from Captivity in Babylon by Cyrus the Great and led back to Israel by Joshua, the High Priest and Prince Zerubbabel, who together rebuilt the Temple, restored divine worship and enabled the Israelites to dwell in their own land again in period from Ezra until the birth of Christ, not long prior to which they were conquered by the Romans.

    For St. Bonaventure - and Pope Benedict XVI, then father Ratzinger, explains this in a 1959 thesis he penned on the subject - St. Francis had already entered into "seventh age of peace," through his mystical union with Christ.


    In the thesis, Ratzinger wrote:


    "...The theology of history of Saint Bonaventure culminates in the hope of an age, within history, of Sabbatical calm donated by God...It is not that peace in the eternity of God which will never end and which will follow the dissolution of the world. It is a peace which God Himself will establish in this world which has seen so much blood and tears...

    Revelatio refers not to the letter of Scripture, but to the understanding of the letter. And this understanding can be increased. If we were to suppose the possibility of a period of time in which the power of genuine mystical elevation were granted to all human beings, then - in this perspective - we could refer to such a time as a time of revelation in quite a new sense...

    When this age arrives, it will be a time of contemplation, a time of full understanding of the scripture and, in this respect, a time of the Holy spirit who leads us into the fulness of the truth of Jesus Christ..."

    St. Bonaventure differentiates this "period of peace" from the millennial heresy of Joachim of Fiore, which posited a "definitive intra-historical fulfilment, an inner, intrinsic perfectibility of history".

    St. Bonaventure argues in his Collations on the Hexaemeron (1273):


    "...The seventh time or age, that of quiet, begins with the shout of the angel (Rev. 10:&-7)...It is necessary that One Ruler, a defender of the Church, arise...No one knows how long that time of great peace will last since ''when they said 'Peace and security,' then suddenly destruction came upon them" (1 Thessalonians 5:1-3)..."

    The peace is not intended to serve as an end in itself: as if we could hope to find perfect happiness other than in the Beatific Vision in the afterlife. Rather, it is a means towards the real end: the Second Pentecost, the preaching of the gospel to the ends of the earth, the full incoming of the gentiles prior to the conversion of the Jewish people.
     
    #11 Vouthon, Jul 2, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    48,683
    Ratings:
    +4,883
    using His quotations.....I am willing to assume MANY personas!

    but if He comes back in the form He left with......

    oh oh
     
  13. Dawnofhope

    Dawnofhope Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    11,000
    Ratings:
    +10,979
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    The word Christ means Messiah so in that sense Moses was a Messiah and Saviour for the Jewish people as Muhammad was for the Nomadic Tribesman that made up the Arabian Peninsula during the seventh century AD.

    Jesus in His brief tenure as the Messiah didn't seem to achieve too much initially. Dying a criminal's death after three years should have seen His movement dead and buried to any objective observer.

    As for a Messiah in more recent times making claims to be the Return of Christ take your pick.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_claimed_to_be_Jesus

    There's been plenty that have made that claim since the nineteenth century including the founder of my faith, Baha'u'llah.

    So I've made my best guess a long time ago. A Persian nobleman who grew up Muslim and declared a new Revelation from God. The Shah of Persia tried to extinguish His light and so He had 40 years of His life in prison or exile. I doubt if he'll be at the top of the list for too many American Christians lol.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  14. Dawnofhope

    Dawnofhope Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    11,000
    Ratings:
    +10,979
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    That's one handsome dude. Isn't that Cliff Curtis a New Zealand actor?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Curtis

    He's one of my cuzzies bro!:D
    (That's Zealand slang for we're related)
     
  15. Vouthon

    Vouthon Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    3,951
    Ratings:
    +4,800
    Religion:
    Catholic Christianity
    So to reiterate one of my points from the last post, @Sunstone the Catholic Church leaves open the possibility of a future epoch of enlightenment before the Second Coming, in which the the experience and union with God enjoyed by the great mystics will the become the general state of humankind.

    According to St. Bonaventure, St. Francis of Assisi was the prototype, the first to enter into this Sabbath age of mysticism and contemplation.

    When this occurs, Jesus will begin to reign in our hearts here on earth - his Social Reign, what Pope Pius XI called the Peace of Christ in the Kingdom of Christ - foreshadowing his reign in eternity through the Beatific Vision.

    And temporal peace may result from this. It is described as the Second Pentecost in Catholic private revelations.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Choose an appropriate meaning.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Messages:
    11,795
    Ratings:
    +6,904
    Religion:
    Agnostic and with strong irreligious convictions.
    I hope he at least stops all those crucifying themselves at Easter, as in the Philippines and perhaps elsewhere. Can't be much fun watching the re-enactment of his torment every year. Not that I am expecting any return - ever. :rolleyes:
     
  17. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    48,581
    Ratings:
    +21,890
    Religion:
    Philosophical Buddhism
    Maybe Jesus is Roseanne Barr.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  18. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,756
    Ratings:
    +2,048
    Religion:
    Øneness
    Yeshua challenged the Sanhedrin (Sadducees, Pharisees, Levites), and challenged religiousness... Therefore people who think he will follow an individual religion clearly don't pay attention.

    So we should be looking for someone well versed in most religions; yet doesn't fit into them, as his opinion is vastly more knowledgeable.
    Christianity contradicts Yeshua in the Synoptic Gospels, and was established by the Pharisees (John, Paul, and Simon) about his death being a sacrifice; when Yeshua challenged the Sanhedrin for murdering the prophets as atoning sacrifices in Matthew 23:27-38, Mark 7:1-13, and the Parable of the Wicked Husbandman (Matthew 21:33-46, Mark 12:1-12, and Luke 20:9-19).
    In the Synoptic Gospels Yeshua uses the idea of the midnight hour (Matthew 25:1-13, Mark 13:35,) to be a time of his coming not known just before the Tribulation, this is repeated in Revelation 16:15 & Revelation 3:3 that he comes as a thief; yet will fight people with the words of his mouth in the sky (internet).

    He will come like a son of man, as prophesied in Daniel 7:13-14, Synoptic Gospels, etc.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #18 wizanda, Jul 2, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
  19. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2017
    Messages:
    1,963
    Ratings:
    +467
    Religion:
    Christian gnosis
    I don't wait for "Christ" to come back. The kingdom is here now, and most don't even know it.

    Gospel of Thomas:
    3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

    John 18:
    Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

    Luke 17:
    20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

    21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

    22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.

    John 14:
    16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

    17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

    18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

    The orthodox wait for something they don't understand. Christ has already returned, and without the Spirit, they cannot see him.
     
  20. `mud

    `mud Just old
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    5,700
    Ratings:
    +1,626
    Religion:
    ~life~
    REALLY !!
    The world is insane, me included !
    To even have a vision of this happening,
    is totally insane.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
Loading...