When I look up at the sky at night, and see the stars...

[Mock Turtle]

...I marvel at how insignificant I am. And, it's a good thing.

What do you find fascinating about your life in comparison to the universe?

When I look at the stars, and all the rest that we usually see on a clear night and at the right time of year, I mostly see the past and any future - for us as a species, and perhaps for any other lifeforms - and obviously our insignificance although we still don't know if this is so. After all, we could be the first intelligent life - unlikely, but possible - and if so, then the future probably is out there in space for humans and what we might become. So our insignificance might not truly be such.

The immensity of the universe, only partially seen, is mirrored by the reverse when confronting the size of the smallest particles, with humans here to observe and notice such. Which is a rather splendid position to be in - and a testimony to our intelligence and work I feel - so that too comes whilst gazing at the stars.

 

[chinu]

I like nature's indifference to us. It doesn't take sides. There's something beautiful about that.

Aren't the people all around you, that interacts with you in many ways include in that nature ?

 

[Jos]

Who says life has value to the universe? Just ask it and wait for the answer

I'm not saying that life has value to the universe, I'm just saying that it's logically fallacious to equate importance to our size in relation to the universe. Are you making the claim that humans are objectively not important because of how small we are in the universe or is it just a personal opinion?

Who says we (humans) are even valuable to our own planet? Certainly in recent (few hundred years) we seem to be doing our best to destroy it

Life is only valuable to itself and in the scheme of things (the universe) meh!

Isn't value a subjective determination?

 

[Sunstone]

Aren't the people all around you, that interacts with you in many ways include in that nature ?

In English, the term 'nature' is ambiguous and can refer either to (1) the whole of nature or the universe, or (2) only that portion of nature or the universe that does not include humans or their artifacts. Among other meanings of the word.

 

[ChristineM]

I'm not saying that life has value to the universe, I'm just saying that it's logically fallacious to equate importance to our size in relation to the universe. Are you making the claim that humans are objectively not important because of how small we are in the universe or is it just a personal opinion?


Isn't value a subjective determination?

I am saying that in the scope of the universe, or even that small percentage of what we see in the night sky, life is irrelevant.

Is an accident of chemistry of value?

 

[chinu]

In English, the term 'nature' is ambiguous and can refer either to (1) the whole of nature or the universe, or (2) only that portion of nature or the universe that does not include humans or their artifacts. Among other meanings of the word.

thank you.

 

[Deidre]

Isn't it a non sequitur fallacy to look at the size of the universe and then claim that we are insignificant because of how small we are in comparison to it? What does size in relation to the universe have to do with value? What's the link between the two? Unless of course you are subjectively using it as a personal standard for how you measure value, which in that case it makes sense

Contrary to popular opinion, size matters.

 

[Deidre]

What am I referring to when it comes to feeling ''insignificant?'' Not that my life has no meaning, for it does. I believe in God, and my purpose is found in Him. Yet, compared to God, I'm quite insignificant, too. God created the universe in my opinion, so comparably, I'm insignificant, but still have meaning.

In thinking it through, now I have to rethink what it is that I meant.

 

[Clara Tea]

Awestruck by size. It's not about size, it's about life, especially sentient life. It is worth noting that the stars that we see are the special ones....especially bright, especially close. They are not average stars. Nor are we average, though we live among other beings like us, and among other beings not exactly like us (dogs). We are used to seeing the miracle of life all around us, and many take it for granted. For a while, most scientists said that life must exist in the universe somewhere because it is so vast and somewhere there are conditions similar to earth. Yet, so far, SETI has found nothing. We also note that DNA shows that all life on earth is related (bacteria, animals, larger plants, protozoans). So, life didn't spring from nothing on several occasions (unless it died out, and we just can't see it). Creation of life was a very rare event, and therefore more worth your awe than merely the vast stretch of stars. Theists and scientists agree on so many things, and don't even realize it. Theists say that God made Adam from dirt. Scientists say that life was made from chemicals. Dirt is made of chemicals, so they are saying essentially the same thing. Atheists say that life was spontaneously made, while theists say that God made the earth, and God was always there (not made by anything, or maybe the world first self-made man). As we look for the hand of God in every day affairs, we are constantly confronted with the notion that there is no proof. If there was proof, one would have no choice but to be a theist. But if one had no choice, mankind wouldn't be free to make choices. Apparently, God, if he exists, demands free choice.

 

[Jos]

I am saying that in the scope of the universe, or even that small percentage of what we see in the night sky, life is irrelevant.

Irrelevant to the universe maybe but not to us, unless that's your point.

Is an accident of chemistry of value?

We don't know for sure that we're an accident but again even if we were would still value each other even if we weren't meant to be here. Value is a subjective attribution.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

...I marvel at how insignificant I am. And, it's a good thing.

What do you find fascinating about your life in comparison to the universe?

The fact that you're here and even able to perceive and experience the beauty of it all makes you not so insignificant.

 

[ChristineM]

Irrelevant to the universe maybe but not to us, unless that's your point.


We don't know for sure that we're an accident but again even if we were would still value each other even if we weren't meant to be here. Value is a subjective attribution.

Yes, thats my point. And even to us, what are we, very few are remembered for more than 2 or 3 generations after their death.

 

[Jos]

Contrary to popular opinion, size matters.

Size matters to you, but surely it can't be an objective standard of measurement for value since value is subjective?

 

[Jos]

Yes, thats my point. And even to us, what are we, very few are remembered for more than 2 or 3 generations after their death.

Ok I understand.

 

[ChristineM]

Size matters to you, but surely it can't be an objective standard of measurement for value since value is subjective?

Size is objective

 

[Jos]

Size is objective

I know that size is objective but I was saying that she seemed to be using it as an objective basis on which to determine value when ultimately value is subjective.

 

[ChristineM]

I know that size is objective but I was saying that she seemed to be using it as an objective basis on which to determine value when ultimately value is subjective.

Not speaking for her but i think she means the same as me.

 

[Deidre]

Size matters to you, but surely it can't be an objective standard of measurement for value since value is subjective?

My comment was somewhat sarcastic. (referring to the hackneyed adage)

I tend to find value through my faith - value for self and understanding my purpose. But if one is faithless, he/she could have a subjective view of value, so your point is right.

 

[Jos]

My comment was somewhat sarcastic. (referring to the hackneyed adage)

I kinda figured.

I tend to find value through my faith - value for self and understanding my purpose.

So you're saying that you discover value rather than subjectively attribute it and therefore if it's discovered that makes it objective?

 

[Deidre]

I kinda figured.


So you're saying that you discover value rather than subjectively attribute it and therefore if it's discovered that makes it objective?

I need some time to think on that.