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when I accept evolution do i give up my faith?

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by tarasan, Feb 23, 2010.

  1. RedOne77

    RedOne77 Active Member

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    Yes I do. This is how kinds diversify.
     
  2. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    But you can give some specificity of what is and isn't included in a few specific "kinds", can't you? After all, the Bible provides some lists, as tumbleweed pointed out:

    So... you say that the term "kind" is defined based on common descent. Does this mean that you agree with these statements?

    - whales share common descent with fish, but not with land mammals.
    - bats share common descent with birds, but not with non-flying mammals.
    - flying insects share common descent with birds, but not with non-flying insects.
    - moles share common descent with lizards, but not with longer-legged land mammals.

    Are you okay with all that?

    IOW, you have no factual support for the claim that evolution between "kinds" has never been observed?

    Do you make this claim?
     
  3. tumbleweed41

    tumbleweed41 Resident Liberal Hippie

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    Since humans and chimpanzees speciated apart 4.1 million years ago, as shown by anthropological and genetic evidence, then would you define primate as a "kind" including humans and apes?
     
  4. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    No problem... I like to help where I can. There are a lot of things people don't think about when they see a skeleton.
    The issue with "kinds" is that, when you actually study the form and function (and genetics) of species you see that they eventually all mush back into common ancestry. There is no real solid line between "canids" and "bears" and so on back though time. True they look very different today, but their ancestors did not. Much like you don't necessarily look like your great great grandparents and your grandchildren won't necessarily look like you.
    The only "kinds" I can figure out are "living things", "viruses/viroids" and "prions". (and even then the lines are blurry as viruses are often made a part of living things through ERV's... so I guess it's just "living things/viruses" and "prions")

    wa:do
     
  5. Autodidact

    Autodidact Intentionally Blank

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    Well if you ever find one, send him or her in. Meanwhile, FAIL.


    The world you're looking for is not evolutionist, which is a very specific kind of scientist, it is merely "people who accept evolution," or pro-science people. Please present an example of anyone here who supports ToE using a term they cannot define, or a category without criteria. If you cannot, you should retract this spurious accusation.


    You don't believe it because you don't believe it? Nice try, but such a statement is completely circular. If you're saying that God created kinds, and a kind consists of every organism with common ancestry, and the evidence is that every organism on earth shares common ancestry, then you are stuck with ToE, unless you have some EVIDENCE that this is not the case. In order to find evidence in favor of your hypothesis, you would first need to clarify what it is, which so far you have been completely unable to do.
     
  6. Autodidact

    Autodidact Intentionally Blank

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    Would you agree that speciation takes place in the manner described by ToE? That is, descent with modification plus natural selection?
     
  7. Autodidact

    Autodidact Intentionally Blank

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    Are bats and birds the same kind, or different kinds?

    Or are bats a single kind?
     
  8. Gabethewiking

    Gabethewiking Active Member

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    How can you claim that this is how kinds diversify when you do not know what a kind is?
     
  9. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    I am guessing he forget to cite who he is parroting....
     
  10. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    No. Personally, I believe evolution fits the Biblical creation perfectly.
     
  11. Gabethewiking

    Gabethewiking Active Member

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    So do you believe that Evolution has stopped?
    Or that Humans are the Ultimate and End?

    Please explain how you relate to the fact of Evolution as we will be different and not defined s Humans in one million years from now, as well as we existed for only a fraction of the worlds time, it seems a bit racist/discriminatory towards other animals and rather arrogant to claim such an absurd thing.

    Do you have any Basis for your belief/claim?
     
  12. classictall

    classictall New Member

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    You can be a good Christian and believe in evolution. Lots of religious people do that
     
  13. RedOne77

    RedOne77 Active Member

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    I wouldn't say the line of life is blurred for viruses because of ERVs, but because they have genetic material and reproduce; ERVs are more of a product of the properties of viruses than a property itself.

    Is this a real question? How can we claim that gravity attracts masses without knowing exactly what gravity is?

    Yes.
     
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  14. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    They only reproduce by hijacking the cellular machinery of cells...
    ERV's are viruses that have been incorporated into the geneome of a living being. It happens because of a property of viruses (their ability to insert themselves into genes to lay dormant) however once they are switched off so they can no longer produce viruses they become something new.
    What is really cool is when parts of the virus gene is still active and codes for a useful protein in the cell. Essentially being 'domesticated' for lack of a better analogy.

    This makes the line between the virus and the host all but invisible.

    wa:do
     
  15. Gabethewiking

    Gabethewiking Active Member

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    Virsuses are generally not defined as obvious "life" because of their properties. But a hypothetical Question, say that a Virus comes into your body and takes over, intergrates/morphs into you, and becomes you, what is the virus then, which no longer exist? Another life, or you?
     
  16. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    It's an ERV in some cases....but isn't it a wicked interesting question to puzzle over.

    wa:do
     
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