1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured When did Jesus die?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by The Anointed, Mar 8, 2019.

  1. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,615
    Ratings:
    +169
    Religion:
    biblical believer
    sooda wrote...….You're still wrong on all counts. Josephus called them Shepard kings the wrong name and NEVER claimed they were Israelite.

    The Anointed...…. Sorry girl, anyone who has studied this subject, which excludes you, knows that Josephus did identify the shepherd kings as Israelites. Do I have to present the evidence and embarrass you once again?

    sooda wrote......… The myth of Moses is circa 1400 to 1000 BC.

    The Anointed …….. If you believe that Moses existed between 1400 to 1,000 B.C., then YOUR Moses is definitely a myth.

    sooda wrote....... Jericho was rebuilt during the late Bronze Age, again during the Iron Age and again during the Hellenistic period.

    The Anointed...….. Jericho was never again rebuilt on the original site that was destroyed by the Israeli Shepherd kings When are you ever going to learn anything girl?
     
  2. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,615
    Ratings:
    +169
    Religion:
    biblical believer
    sooda wrote...…. You're still wrong on all counts. Josephus called them Shepard kings the wrong name and NEVER claimed they were Israelite.

    The Anointed...…. Sorry girl, anyone who has studied this subject [except you of course] knows that Josephus did identify the Israelites as the Shepherd Kings

    sooda wrote...…. The myth of Moses is circa 1400 to 1000 BC.

    The Anointed...…. If you believe that Moses lived somewhere between 1400 and 1,000 B.C., then 'YOUR' imaginary Moses, is definitely a myth.

    sooda wrote...…. Jericho was rebuilt during the late Bronze Age, again during the Iron Age and again during the Hellenistic period.

    The Anointed...…. The Jericho that was destroyed by the Israeli Shepherd kings, was never again rebuilt on the original site that was destroyed by the Israeli's. Don't you know nothin girl?
     
  3. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    9,620
    Ratings:
    +2,940
    Religion:
    Christian
    Josephus provides the earliest recorded instance of the much repeated false etymology of the term Hyksos, as a Hellenised form of the Egyptian phrase Hekw Shasu, meaning "Shepherd Kings". Scholars have only recently shown that the term derives from heqa-khase, a phrase meaning "rulers of foreign lands".

    [​IMG]
     
  4. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,615
    Ratings:
    +169
    Religion:
    biblical believer
    O, so now you admit that Josephus identified the Shepherd King as Israeli's, it's just that you accept some things that Josephus says, and reject that which does not suite your erroneous belief. That's called "Cherry Picking," girly.
     
  5. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    9,620
    Ratings:
    +2,940
    Religion:
    Christian
    Josephus provides the earliest recorded instance of the much repeated false etymology of the term
    Hyksos
    , as a Hellenised form of the Egyptian phrase
    Hekw Shasu
    , meaning "Shepherd Kings". Scholars have only recently shown that the term derives from
    heqa-khase
    , a phrase meaning "rulers of foreign lands".
     
  6. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    15,254
    Ratings:
    +917
    Religion:
    Christian
    That is the hitch isn't it? I believe he deceived the Pharisees into thinking he wold rise on Monday. They must have been shocked out of their shoes to find out He already did it on Sunday.
     
  7. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    15,254
    Ratings:
    +917
    Religion:
    Christian
    However Daniel predicted His ministry would only last two years before he would be cut off and the ministry started in 29 AD so the crucifixion should have been in 31 AD.
     
  8. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    2,486
    Ratings:
    +775
    Religion:
    seeking
    Then He not only decieved the Pharisees, he decieved the whole world. In other words He lied. Do you really want to call Jesus a ;iar? And what would he gain from it?
     
  9. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2013
    Messages:
    2,432
    Ratings:
    +173
    That would be on the 14th of Nissan, which is when the lamb is sacrificed, and is the day before the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the 15th, which is a high holy Sabbath. Three days and three nights after a burial, Mary went to the tomb "late on the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week" (Matthew 28:1), and found the tomb empty. There was no "good Friday" supper, for the last supper occurred at the beginning of the 14th of Nissan, and the crucifixion happened toward the end of the 14th of Nissan. There was only to be one sign given to the wicked generation, and that was the sign of Jonah, 3 days and 3 nights in the earth. The feast of Easter/Astarte is a construct of the Nicene Council, which was convened by the beast with two horns like a lamb, Constantine. The Roman church is nothing but a daughter of Babylon, who rode on the back of the beast with 7 heads, whose authority came from the dragon/devil (Revelation 17:1-6). Easter is simply a pagan feast day, and good Friday is simply a unwarranted construct.

    Matthew 12:38-45 38Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from you." 39He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
     
  10. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2013
    Messages:
    2,432
    Ratings:
    +173
    According to the law, priesthood starts at age 30. According to the death of Herod, around the year 4 BC, that would make Yeshua's birth date earlier, according to the alignment of planets, star of Bethlehem, that would make the birth date around 6 B.C. That would make the year of the start of a 3 1/2 year witness around 30 years after 6 BC.

    https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/people-cultures-in-the...
    Letters to the Editor debate dates of Herod’s death and Jesus’ birth. First, Josephus informs us that Herod died shortly before a Passover ( Antiquities 17.9.3, The Jewish War 2.1.3), making a lunar eclipse in March (the time of the 4 B.C. eclipse) much more likely than one in December.
     
  11. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    15,254
    Ratings:
    +917
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe I am not deceived but then I have the Biblical record and so does the world. It had to be a surprise for His disciples as well even though He told them He would rise, they still didn't believe it until He revealed his risen body.
     
  12. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    15,254
    Ratings:
    +917
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe I have heard all that but it still falls into the area of speculation. Right now I still hold to the 1Ad as His first year of life.
     
  13. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    2,486
    Ratings:
    +775
    Religion:
    seeking
    OK, you are not deceived. But three days and three nights does not mean Friday evening to Sunday morning. So there is a problem somewhere.
     
  14. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    15,254
    Ratings:
    +917
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe the problem is that you think God is stupid.
     
  15. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    9,620
    Ratings:
    +2,940
    Religion:
    Christian
    The whore of Babylon is Israel. Scripture says so a dozen times or more.
     
  16. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    9,620
    Ratings:
    +2,940
    Religion:
    Christian
    All historians recognized Josephus' error.

    BTW.. do you know what an onager is?
     
  17. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    2,486
    Ratings:
    +775
    Religion:
    seeking
    That is very interesting. Perhaps you could explain. I am pretty sure God is smarter than you. IMO.
     
  18. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2014
    Messages:
    941
    Ratings:
    +59
    Scripture doesn't fail us, but tradition often leads us astray.

    To save confusion, it's probably helpful to avoid using Gentile days of the week and stick, instead, to the Jewish calculation based on Genesis 1:5, 'And the evening and the morning were the first day.' A day begins at, let's say, 6pm, and goes round to 6pm, 24 hours later. It is made up of a night and a day.

    Jesus is the Lamb of God and he fulfils God's law. He dies at exactly the time that the Passover lambs are slain.
    Exodus 12:6: 'And ye shall keep it [the lamb without blemish] until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening [between sundown and darkness].'

    Jesus therefore dies on the 14 Nisan, 'between the evenings' [part of 1 day]. He then spends the evening of the fifteenth in the tomb. This is when Jews eat the Passover Seder meal. It is also the first night of the three days and nights prophesied in Jonah [1 night]. Jesus then spends the day of the 15th [2 days], the night of the 16th [2 nights], the day of the 16th [3 days], and the night of the 17th [3 nights] in the tomb. He is raised to life during the night of the weekly sabbath. The women come to the tomb early on the first day of the week to discover his body gone.

    This means that the 15th day of Nisan is a holy convocation, an additional sabbath. It is followed the next day by the weekly sabbath. Effectively, no work can be done for two consecutive days. The women are prevented from taking their anointing oils to the tomb for two whole days. By the time they do get to the tomb, Jesus has been resurrected.

    This pattern fits with the feast of Unleavened Bread, which lasts seven days. The feast begins with a sabbath and ends with a sabbath, seven days later [Leviticus 23:6-8]. The second day of Unleavened Bread is also the day when the firstfruits of the barley harvest are taken to the temple. The Omer calendar becomes effective from the second day and counts for seven weeks, the following day, the fiftieth, being Pentecost (Shavuot) [Leviticus 23:15,16].

    The death of Jesus can be calculated exactly because he fulfils the law of God. Jesus is the firstfruits of the harvest, and he is raised to fulfil the wave offering (a sheaf). The same day the lamb becomes a burnt meat offering, offered with wine [Leviticus 23:11-13]. In other words, the body and blood of Jesus Christ become a sweet savour before God.
     
  19. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    2,486
    Ratings:
    +775
    Religion:
    seeking
    I think you are really on to something here. But I have one question. Mark 16:1 says that some womem bought spices AFRWE the sabbath was over. Luke 23:56 says the women prepared the spices and THEN rested on the sabbath. I really think there could have been two sabbaths but I think there was a day in between. The first sabbath was Thursady. The women bought the spices on Friday and prepared them. Then they rested on the Saturday sabbath. If the two sabbaths were Friday and Saturday then there was no day for them to buy and prepare the spices. What are your thoughts on this? It also seems like in this day of computers someone should be able to create an accurate calender that shows the Jerwish months from around 30 AD to 33 AD which is when most people believe Jesus died. Then we could see if there were years when the Oassover fell on Wednesday or Thursday or some other day. This might clear up some of the confusion. Thanks
     
  20. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2014
    Messages:
    941
    Ratings:
    +59
    Interesting.

    It may be helpful to know that according to the mathematics of the Jewish calendar, the Atbash, the first day of Pesach cannot fall on a Monday, Wednesday or Friday.

    This strengthens the evidence for Wednesday being the day of the crucifixion. We are told in clear terms that Jesus died on the eve of Passover - 'the preparation of the passover' [John 19:14]

    In Luke 23:56 certain women, later named [see Luke 24:10], have just seen Jesus' body laid in the tomb. They prepare spices and ointments straight afterwards. This means that they must have prepared some spices in the time between 3pm and 6pm, before the Passover Sabbath began. Luke 24:1 says that when they turned up at the sepulchre after the sabbath (which I assume is now the weekly Sabbath) they brought 'spices which they had prepared, 'and certain others with them.' These other spices must have been purchased after the weekly Sabbath was over. This may have been possible, given the fact that the weekly sabbath ended at about 6pm on the Saturday.
     
Loading...