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Featured When and where Baha'ullah took Bahaullah's Covenant?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by paarsurrey, Apr 23, 2019.

  1. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg A World Citizen
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    The Bab and Baha'u'llah brought about a new way of thinking. If we look back we can see what that thinking is, in what we know of the title of past Messengers;

    Abraham was known as the 'Friend of God'.
    Moses was known as the 'One Who spoke with God'. Jesus was known as 'the Spirit of God', or the 'Word of God' according to the Qur'an and in the Bible the 'Son of God' Muhammad was known as the 'Messenger of God' and the 'Seal of the Messengers'.

    The Bible tells us that we await the 'Day of God' or the 'Day of Jehovah' when God the 'Father' will be with us, this is what the Jews await in a Messiah.

    The Bab ushered in this 'great and dreadful day of the Lord' and as such the way we see the Manifestation has changed.

    The Bab now begins to use a new terminology such as "mazhar-i Amr'u'llah", or the "Manifestation of the Cause" or "Command of God". The short version is "Manifestation of God"

    Thus the Bab's revelation was to prepare and point us towards the 'Glory of God', who is Baha'u'llah.

    Do you see the progression of how we see the connection between the Messenger and God in their Titles?

    Regards Tony
     
  2. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    I have no problems when a person is given another name. What counts is him living an exemplary life:
    Shirdi Sai Baba's
    real name remains unknown. The name Sai was given to him by Mhalsapati when he arrived at Shirdi, a town now in the west Indian state of Maharashtra. The word Sai refers to a religious mendicant but can also mean God.
     
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  3. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    My Master told me "I am God" ... then He added "You are also God ... only you have not realized it yet ... to realize this is the goal of life". When my Master said this, of course He was not referring to His and my body. These perish for all, even for Avatars, Prophets and Messengers. I believe that my Master meant something like "all humans are sparks of the Divine, so in essence all are Divine". Compare this with the ocean and drops of water. All drops have the same essence as the ocean, but of course the ocean is the sum total of all the drops. So when I read Bahaullah talking about "I am the Sun or God" or something similar, I see it in this context. That way it does make sense to me.

    To say "Putting a God-head hat is too loose to fit on a human being born of a woman and facing death like a helpless soul", you only say that you see only the body, you do not see beyond the body. You identify yourself with your body, but a real Master identifies Himself NOT with his body, nor with His emotions, nor with His mind. So your above line does not apply to a real Master, it only applies to people who identify with the body.
     
    #23 stvdv, Apr 24, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
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  4. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    My Master said "Most people use sorry as an excuse to do it again" ... "No need to keep saying sorry, just don't do it again". Of course when you make a mistake, it's best to say sorry.

    But on RF there is one rule saying "Always start (or end) with `I believe this and that....` or add somewhere `in my humble opinion`". This way you never hurt others. So no need to say sorry. You just gave your opinion. When you add sorry then you send a strange vibe IMO. Like you know (before hitting the send button) that you will hurt the other by what you are writing, but still you do it.
     
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  5. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    It’s a bit like saying Jesus wasn’t named the Christ, Immanuel etc
     
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  6. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I think it is a bit like asking when and where God took a covenant with the Prophets;

    'Behold! Allah took the Covenant of the Prophets, saying: "I give you a Book and Wisdom; then comes to you a Messenger confirming what is with you; do ye believe him and render him help." Allah said: "Do ye agree, and take this My Covenant as binding on you?" They said: "We agree."'
    (The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali translation), Surah 3:81)
     
  7. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Actually Jesus of Nazareth, became Jesus Christ,immanuel, and Lamb of God, which are more titles of the Messiah, and like the Bab and Baha'u'llah they are titles, and not necessarily names as such. Your 'splitting frog hairs' over your disbelief and objections to the Baha'i Faith, which are not meaningful. Was this thread really only about when, where, and how Baha'u'llah declared his Covenant?

    All this tells me is you do not believe In the claims of Baha'u'llah, and the Baha'i Faith, and that was well understood before you posted the thread. Throwing in some misinformation.
     
    #27 shunyadragon, Apr 24, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  8. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    I have no idea. I don't know where Paar lives even. Seems pretty tolerant here.
     
  9. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Here is where?
     
  10. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    To add: Titles of Muhammad.

    From: https://www.google.com/search?sourc...j0i131j0i20i263j0i131i20i263j0i10.LTRPmX9C_6k

    Muhammad is often referenced with these titles of praise or epithet:
    • an-Nâbî, "The Prophet"
    • Rasûl'Allâh, "The Messenger of Allah"
    • al-Habeeb, "The Beloved"
    • al-Mustafā, "The Chosen One"
    • al-Amîn, "The Trustworthy"
    • as-Sadîq, "The Honest"
    • ar-Rauf, "The Kind"
    • Uswa-e-Hasanah, "The Model of Conduct"
    The title Baha'u'llah is equivalent to Rasûl'Allâh, "The Messenger of Allah" for Muhammad.
     
    #30 shunyadragon, Apr 24, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
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  11. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    RF
     
  12. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    This is an internet forum and not the reality of the outside word, particularly in Islamic countries,

    Nonetheless at least one Muslim on this site described the Baha'i Faith as evil, which reflects the view in many Islamic countries..
     
  13. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    So? And some Bahais have described some non-Bahais as having an anti-Baha'i agenda.
     
  14. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Calling the Baha'i Faith evil is most definitely an anti-Baha'i agenda.

    Of course some non-believers have an anti-Hindu, anti-Muslim, anti-Christian, anti-Jewish, and of course anti-everything.
     
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  15. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Islamic and Christian fundamentalists have been calling Hinduism evil for at least the last 50 years. I've never been offended by it, as that's just what they believe. Lots of folks like to toss the 'evil' word around for pretty much anything that differs from what they believe. I don't see it as having a particular agenda at all. To me, an 'agenda' means having a singular focus. But then maybe I misunderstand the word.
     
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  16. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    Bahaullah's mission began in year 1852, and was marked by vision of a Maiden of Heaven, when He was in a prison in Tehran.
    He passed away, in year 1892. He was revealing the commands of God, for 40 years (1852-1892). It might be interest to you, to know that according to Islamic Hadithes, when Christ returns, He rules for 40 years! Notice also, according to Islamic Hadithes, their Qaim comes first and rules for 7 years, then Christ returns and rules for 40 years..
    The Bab's mission began in 1844, and He was martyred in 1850. He was revealing the commands of God in these 7 years: 1844, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49 and 1850.
     
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  17. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    What you describe is a singular focus of fundamentalist and other orthodox beliefs having aggressive hatred against other religions. I am very concerned and more than offended, because being Baha'i or converting to any other religion particularly Baha'i in many Islamic countries is punishable by death or imprisonment.Many Baha'is have martyred, and put in prison and their children taken away from them including at least one American citizen. Their homes and property confiscated.
     
    #37 shunyadragon, Apr 24, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
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  18. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    So too with the Rohingya today, the Tamils in northern Sri Lanka, the tragedy in Rwanda a few years ago, and the Ukrainians and Jews in WW2. Victims of genocide have every right to be offended.
     
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  19. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    The titles, of course, fit well with the Bible. Many times it says things about the Glory of God. And, then there's the "prophecy" about entering through the gate that faces East. But, these are titles. And, do they fit as well in Islamic prophecy? Are there predictions about the Glory of God and The Gate being tied in with the return of Christ? And, what exactly were Muslims expecting during the year 1260? Was it two prophets? Was it Jesus? Is there anything that points towards the Baha'i Faith being correct and what Muslims have been waiting for?
     
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  20. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "And, what exactly were Muslims expecting during the year 1260? Was it two prophets? Was it Jesus? Is there anything that points towards the Baha'i Faith being correct and what Muslims have been waiting for?" Unquote

    Sorry, I don't get one's post exactly.The portion I understood is replied as under.

    Quran is very clear about what will happen after Muhammad.

    The clarity is that whoever comes after Muhammad will be in short:
    1. A successor of Muhammad.
    2. Will have the seal of authentication from Muhammad , in words, character and the features as defined in Quran for a divinely-guided.
    If somebody misunderstood from Quran and thought outside the Quran because of conflicting Shia-Traditions or Sunni-Traditions etc or due to mis-interpretation of the clear verses of Quran, that is clearly his fault/lack of understanding, not of Quran.

    Right, please?

    Regards
     
    #40 paarsurrey, Apr 24, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
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