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When a person "discover wisdom" that is not in the holy books

Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I have a question about what is your view on gaining new understanding, wisdom/knowledge within a religion but there is no direct connection to it in the scripture.

Would it be better if this person did not see it as a part of the teaching?
Or do you see it more as a part of the journey, and that the person did gain deeper wisdom from the teaching?

I guess the real question is: should a religious person just read the teaching, but not seek the deep wisdom within? or is it a sign of enlightenment to be able to draw new wisdom from the teaching?
 
Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Reading scriptures only, one's own or of others, cannot give one wisdom. They were written centuries ago. One cannot ignore science in 2021, one cannot ignore the changes that human societies have gone through. No wisdom without taking these into consideration. For example, Mohammad talked about black magic, djinns (and more). Should one believe in that in 2021?
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Aupmanyav said:
Reading scriptures only, one's own or of others, cannot give one wisdom. They were written centuries ago. One cannot ignore science in 2021, one cannot ignore the changes that human societies have gone through. No wisdom without taking these into consideration. For example, Mohammad talked about black magic, djinns (and more). Should one believe in that in 2021?
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Speaking from a Sufi point of view, i belive of course in the teaching within Islam, but in the last month or so i have started to realize that it is also good to use science as a reference to what the texts say when it comes to our physical world.

So in my understanding, it would be beneficial to understand both physical and spiritual teachings.
I am sure many others will disagree with me here, but you know that is ok :)
 
Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
That is OK with me. I am not against teachings from scriptures. Some are beneficial, some are not. For example, abortion and LGBTQ. Many Gods need to abrogate / change their rules about them.
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Sirona said:
I do not know enough about Islam to know about its relationship between scriptural literalism and some possibly mystical experience. Generally speaking, I'd say mystical experience is when religion really comes to life.
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You just described sufism :) sufism is when you take the scripture and use it together with personal experience from your own practice.
 
passerby

passerby

Member
Conscious thoughts said:
You just described sufism :) sufism is when you take the scripture and use it together with personal experience from your own practice.
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In Christianity we call it the Holy Spirit; the third person of the Holy Trinity. One of the gifts of the Spirt is wisdom, which comes directly to us through prayer and reflection.In Catholicism it is conferred at Confirmation. For me the Holy Spirit is my great divine teacher, inseparable from the One God.
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
passerby said:
In Christianity we call it the Holy Spirit; the third person of the Holy Trinity. One of the gifts of the Spirt is wisdom, which comes directly to us through prayer and reflection.In Catholicism it is conferred at Confirmation. For me the Holy Spirit is my great divine teacher, inseparable from the One God.
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Yes, i believe the different religious teachings speak about the same experience there, but different names of it
 
Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Conscious thoughts said:
You just described sufism :) sufism is when you take the scripture and use it together with personal experience from your own practice.
Click to expand...
Though there are limitations there. You cannot deny that there is only one God, you cannot deny that Mohammad is the last messenger from Allah (Khatam an-Nabiyyin), you cannot deny that Qur'an is the word of God. ;)
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Aupmanyav said:
Though there are limitations there. You cannot deny that there is only one God, you cannot deny that Mohammad is the last messenger from Allah (Khatam an-Nabiyyin), you cannot deny that Qur'an is the word of God. ;)
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To me as a muslim yes that is true. But who am i to tell others their belief or understanding must be like mine? I can't do that
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Conscious thoughts said:
I have a question about what is your view on gaining new understanding, wisdom/knowledge within a religion but there is no direct connection to it in the scripture.

Would it be better if this person did not see it as a part of the teaching?
Or do you see it more as a part of the journey, and that the person did gain deeper wisdom from the teaching?

I guess the real question is: should a religious person just read the teaching, but not seek the deep wisdom within? or is it a sign of enlightenment to be able to draw new wisdom from the teaching?
Click to expand...

I think in my view and experience (and recent one too, last night's dream...) anyway, experience and signs and stuff like that would be something I'd focus on as "scripture" more so than what's written.

In my opinion, Muhammad had his own personal experiences, Jesus did, we'll add The Buddha and, I don't know, Joe Bob....but they're not YOUR experiences. So, with Muhammad's and Jesus' cause, I'd say you can learn from them (since Islam acknowledges Jesus if I'm not mistaken or just the old testament prophets?) Well, doesn't matter. But mainly, it's your experiences, knowledge, and wisdom. If I came down to ask you "how do you view god" I wouldn't expect you to flip through the Quran and say, well Muhammad..." It's all yours.

With that in mind, I wouldn't say "just." Maybe see it as scripture is commentary to experience not what defines it?
 
SalixIncendium

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Conscious thoughts said:
I have a question about what is your view on gaining new understanding, wisdom/knowledge within a religion but there is no direct connection to it in the scripture.

Would it be better if this person did not see it as a part of the teaching?
Or do you see it more as a part of the journey, and that the person did gain deeper wisdom from the teaching?

I guess the real question is: should a religious person just read the teaching, but not seek the deep wisdom within? or is it a sign of enlightenment to be able to draw new wisdom from the teaching?
Click to expand...

I don’t think there is any one way to gain wisdom. Wisdom comes through experience. Reading scripture is an experience. While in my case, scripture verified my experiences, I don’t think that is the case for everyone based on my interactions with people. Some gain wisdom through scripture, others worship, others through spontaneous mystical experiences, and even others through secular mundane experiences.

That said, I think if one is just sitting around waiting for wisdom to just happen from within in the absence of any experience, one could be waiting for a very long time.
 
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