When A Friend Changes

[JustGeorge]

I've had a friend that's made a gender switch in the last few months. While there was no warning ahead of time(she never spoke that this was a thought), I considered it an overall positive. She seemed comfortable in her new skin, and went from being controlled by mental illnesses to fairly functional. I admit, I was a little bummed at first by all the talk being about make up(which is not particularly interesting to me), but I was told this is a normal part of transitioning, and it should blow over soon.

Fast forward a bit. The make up talk did blow over. But the neurosis and mental health issues are back full swing. However, what concerns me most is a newfound selfishness. This person always bordered a bit on being self absorbed, but there now seems to be nothing to keep her in check. Previously, she would try to correct the behavior if it got too far, but now she seems to be obsessed with herself and her needs and highly inconsiderate of others. She has gotten into this 'Brittney Spears persona'(for lack of a better comparison), and quite frankly, I don't like the person she's becoming.

Is this a normal part of transitioning? This is my only friend I've had go through this, so I'm not sure what its all like. Honestly, she's been so self absorbed and rude lately, that if I didn't fear the damage to my relationship with her spouse(who is a good friend), I'd probably cut my contact. And being as they are my only two friends, that's a dramatic move for me...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It can be, as for some of us it's the first time we've put ourselves first and pursued our own needs.
But if she was already borderline there to begin with, it probably just more came out.
(Apparently lying is something some pick up on, according to conversations at a trans support group, because it's already been done for so long)

 

[JustGeorge]

It can be, as for some of us it's the first time we've put ourselves first and pursued our own needs.
But if she was already borderline there to begin with, it probably just more came out.
(Apparently lying is something some pick up on, according to conversations at a trans support group, because it's already been done for so long)

She's always had a habit of putting herself first, but we made ways around it. Early on in the friendship, I learned to make her plate for her when having her over for dinner, or she would take all the food, even if others hadn't eaten. In most cases, she would at least try to consider everyone's feelings, however, (even if she still ended up acting mostly for herself). She's not trying anymore.

What's the best way to respond? I don't want to be a jerk or lack empathy, but I also don't like being treated like a tool. I struggle greatly with standing up for myself, and tend to overthink things as it is, so I'm a little confused. I can put up with the focus on self, but I'm tired of being ignored unless its good for her, and this morning received a text asking me and my kids not to come help with something we'd already been ask to help with because "we'd be in the way"(never mind you can't just promise an autistic kid something and then take it away without the kid freaking out all day, and she knows that). Kind of struggling to keep my composure.

Hoping this will pass, too. I haven't seen any lying. Just avoidance, but she was prone to doing that previously, though perhaps not as bad.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

She's always had a habit of putting herself first, but we made ways around it. Early on in the friendship, I learned to make her plate for her when having her over for dinner, or she would take all the food, even if others hadn't eaten. In most cases, she would at least try to consider everyone's feelings, however, (even if she still ended up acting mostly for herself). She's not trying anymore.

What's the best way to respond? I don't want to be a jerk or lack empathy, but I also don't like being treated like a tool. I struggle greatly with standing up for myself, and tend to overthink things as it is, so I'm a little confused. I can put up with the focus on self, but I'm tired of being ignored unless its good for her, and this morning received a text asking me and my kids not to come help with something we'd already been ask to help with because "we'd be in the way"(never mind you can't just promise an autistic kid something and then take it away without the kid freaking out all day, and she knows that). Kind of struggling to keep my composure.

Hoping this will pass, too. I haven't seen any lying. Just avoidance, but she was prone to doing that previously, though perhaps not as bad.

Seems to me it may have just came out more. She's still a human, and being trans doesn't mean she shouldn't be held to the same standards of human decency.
But, have you tried talking to her about this? Being trans doesn't your above criticism and shouldn't have to hear any. You aren't being a jerk or lacking empathy to discuss this, especially if it's had a detrimental effect on your kid.

 

[JustGeorge]

Seems to me it may have just came out more. She's still a human, and being trans doesn't mean she shouldn't be held to the same standards of human decency.
But, have you tried talking to her about this? Being trans doesn't your above criticism and shouldn't have to hear any. You aren't being a jerk or lacking empathy to discuss this, especially if it's had a detrimental effect on your kid.

I haven't. Some of this is because she hasn't been around at much... some of its because I'm chicken. If I say something, I'd rather it be in person, anyways.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'd rather it be in person, anyways.

Definitely. I'm surprised and horrified learning people are having important conversations over text message instead of face-to-face (of course it can't always be done, but my friend's kids where having problems with other kids and the other mom talked to my friend about it over facebook ).
But, you'll have to do something or you'll just keep unnecessarily having this problem area in your life. Sounds like she may flip out even if you can be the most gentle and sensitive anyone has ever been, but she's already apparently making you feel bad enough to ask for advice with it here.

 

[sun rise]

she would take all the food, even if others hadn't eaten

This struck me as an indication of something really offbase. Without speculating on her mental condition, there are some people who, sadly, can't be accommodated and must be left to find their own destiny. I don't know if that applies to her or not.

If you do talk with her, talking in person makes the most sense to me. I learned that in some situations, it's too easy to miss important clues otherwise.

 

[JustGeorge]

This struck me as an indication of something really offbase. Without speculating on her mental condition, there are some people who, sadly, can't be accommodated and must be left to find their own destiny. I don't know if that applies to her or not.

If you do talk with her, talking in person makes the most sense to me. I learned that in some situations, it's too easy to miss important clues otherwise.

I suspect she's on the spectrum. I asked her once, and she said her mom tried to have her diagnosed, but she was a box short of a diagnosis(which brought up a round of jokes on both of our parts). I suspect if she were to go back now, at a time when we know more about autism, she'd get that diagnosis. I don't think when she would take all the food(or whatever the resource was at the time) that it was directed at others, it was simply being so self aware and excited that she wasn't mindful that there was others.

Definitely. I'm surprised and horrified learning people are having important conversations over text message instead of face-to-face (of course it can't always be done, but my friend's kids where having problems with other kids and the other mom talked to my friend about it over facebook ).
But, you'll have to do something or you'll just keep unnecessarily having this problem area in your life. Sounds like she may flip out even if you can be the most gentle and sensitive anyone has ever been, but she's already apparently making you feel bad enough to ask for advice with it here.

Texting/online seems to be the way everyone does everything(not that I approve). Besides, she doesn't respond to my texts anyway most days, unless they're specifically about her, or she finds them particularly interesting(this is not a new development. Only trouble is I don't see her much anymore, but I guess I will today(not sure if this is the best time to talk to her, though, due to events going on).

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I've had a friend that's made a gender switch in the last few months. While there was no warning ahead of time(she never spoke that this was a thought), I considered it an overall positive. She seemed comfortable in her new skin, and went from being controlled by mental illnesses to fairly functional. I admit, I was a little bummed at first by all the talk being about make up(which is not particularly interesting to me), but I was told this is a normal part of transitioning, and it should blow over soon.

Fast forward a bit. The make up talk did blow over. But the neurosis and mental health issues are back full swing. However, what concerns me most is a newfound selfishness. This person always bordered a bit on being self absorbed, but there now seems to be nothing to keep her in check. Previously, she would try to correct the behavior if it got too far, but now she seems to be obsessed with herself and her needs and highly inconsiderate of others. She has gotten into this 'Brittney Spears persona'(for lack of a better comparison), and quite frankly, I don't like the person she's becoming.

Is this a normal part of transitioning? This is my only friend I've had go through this, so I'm not sure what its all like. Honestly, she's been so self absorbed and rude lately, that if I didn't fear the damage to my relationship with her spouse(who is a good friend), I'd probably cut my contact. And being as they are my only two friends, that's a dramatic move for me...

The hormones really do change a person. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but I think... that you may be seeing her woman side, and understandably not liking it.

Sometimes it's hard for two women to get along. It doesn't always happen, but sometimes women can become catty and dramatic.

Still, don't take this the wrong way, but some things you mentioned, I did see myself in, as character flaws. Sometimes I'll make a thread like the "KATatopia" one and wonder if I'm just doing it to be the center of attention, though I like to think they're kind of fun too. I really don't get much attention in real life, you see... I can recall three of my birthdays that were kind of hardly even celebrated.

 

[stvdv]

I struggle greatly with standing up for myself, and tend to overthink things as it is, so I'm a little confused

I had the same problem, its getting better in recent years, took me quite a while to see it in myself, and then it took quite a while to turn it around

I had a great example in the form of Sai Baba. He did not tolerate any disrespect. People could try it, and He would totally ignore them. And His beautiful way to ignore someone, was during Darshan to walk up to the person without even any eye contact whatsoever, standing in front of the person talking to all the people around that person and totally ignoring that person.

Bottom line, if I have Self Respect (and Self Love) I do not allow others to cross the line I make clear to them. Took me decades to learn. I had a friend like you describe. Always trying to sabotage my goodwill. And when I told him, he said sorry, but it did not take long and he did it again

Finally I found out, that this is just his little game. He is full of suppressed anger. I have seen and heard him talk to his mother very sweet, though she belittles him. So, he does not stand up to his mother, and the anger he creates thereby in himself, he acts out on me/others. The moment I discovered this, I ended our contact.

I did the same like you "overthink the things". Does not work for me anymore. Better to just tell them to stop. And I have learned if they don't respect me the first time, they most probably will never learn. So, I finally have learned to give them one or two chances, and then its "goodbye".

Wish you all the strength to solve it in a way that feels good to you. This has been one of my toughest challenges to solve, so I know its not easy.

 

[JustGeorge]

The hormones really do change a person. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but I think... that you may be seeing her woman side, and understandably not liking it.

Sometimes it's hard for two women to get along. It doesn't always happen, but sometimes women can become catty and dramatic.

Still, don't take this the wrong way, but some things you mentioned, I did see myself in, as character flaws. Sometimes I'll make a thread like the "KATatopia" one and wonder if I'm just doing it to be the center of attention, though I like to think they're kind of fun too. I really don't get much attention in real life, you see... I can recall three of my birthdays that were kind of hardly even celebrated.

There haven't been any hormones(she can't afford it and is anti-government, so won't go the state assistance route). And I'm about as womanly as a cement mixer. I wonder if there's just some friction between the new, carefree attitude, and my old slow paced one. A few months back, she came over with wine for us.... at 11am(also, the time I wake up). She was very disappointed that I didn't want to drink with her so early in the day....

I think its nice that you can create a thread to grab yourself some needed attention. I don't really get attention, either. I can respect that you're fulfilling a need in a fun way.

I had the same problem, its getting better in recent years, took me quite a while to see it in myself, and then it took quite a while to turn it around

I had a great example in the form of Sai Baba. He did not tolerate any disrespect. People could try it, and He would totally ignore them. And His beautiful way to ignore someone, was during Darshan to walk up to the person without even any eye contact whatsoever, standing in front of the person talking to all the people around that person and totally ignoring that person.

Bottom line, if I have Self Respect (and Self Love) I do not allow others to cross the line I make clear to them. Took me decades to learn. I had a friend like you describe. Always trying to sabotage my goodwill. And when I told him, he said sorry, but it did not take long and he did it again

Finally I found out, that this is just his little game. He is full of suppressed anger. I have seen and heard him talk to his mother very sweet, though she belittles him. So, he does not stand up to his mother, and the anger he creates thereby in himself, he acts out on me/others. The moment I discovered this, I ended our contact.

I did the same like you "overthink the things". Does not work for me anymore. Better to just tell them to stop. And I have learned if they don't respect me the first time, they most probably will never learn. So, I finally have learned to give them one or two chances, and then its "goodbye".

Wish you all the strength to solve it in a way that feels good to you. This has been one of my toughest challenges to solve, so I know its not easy.

I'm glad you've found this strength within yourself.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Is this a normal part of transitioning?

No, although some do act like insufferable stereotypes of femininity or masculinity.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

There haven't been any hormones(she can't afford it and is anti-government, so won't go the state assistance route). And I'm about as womanly as a cement mixer. I wonder if there's just some friction between the new, carefree attitude, and my old slow paced one. A few months back, she came over with wine for us.... at 11am(also, the time I wake up). She was very disappointed that I didn't want to drink with her so early in the day....

Well whatever the case may be... it does sound like it's definitely not you or anything and she's being possibly a bit irritating. One thing I have noticed in the trans communities is that sometimes when a biological male is new to transitioning, they'll kind of go through a party stage like you see among cis people in some gay male communities - just the rather toxic ones though. I think this usually involves not really understanding what becoming a woman is, and after awhile, they kind of reach a big reality check (or not).

 

[JustGeorge]

Well whatever the case may be... it does sound like it's definitely not you or anything and she's being possibly a bit irritating. One thing I have noticed in the trans communities is that sometimes when a biological male is new to transitioning, they'll kind of go through a party stage like you see among cis people in some gay male communities - just the rather toxic ones though. I think this usually involves not really understanding what becoming a woman is, and after awhile, they kind of reach a big reality check (or not).

Yeah, this makes a lot of sense to me. One thing she's talked about frequently is how she feels like she's in her early 20s again. She expresses annoyance with the rest of us(her spouse included) when we aren't all biting at the bit to grow young again and be spontaneous and wild with her.

I didn't like being 21. Why would I want to go back?

I think this may very well be the 'party stage' that you speak of(though I hear she's leaving the house less and less over make up stress).

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Yeah, this makes a lot of sense to me. One thing she's talked about frequently is how she feels like she's in her early 20s again. She expresses annoyance with the rest of us(her spouse included) when we aren't all biting at the bit to grow young again and be spontaneous and wild with her.

I didn't like being 21. Why would I want to go back?

I think this may very well be the 'party stage' that you speak of(though I hear she's leaving the house less and less over make up stress).

I see. If I took all the preparation on appearance I wanted to, I'd be spending four hours a day. But the last few days I have spent 45 minutes each day.

I don't really have a solution since I've seen a lot of people kind of get emotional highs so to speak as part of the party life, then kind of burn out. And a lot of times, there's no telling them.

I'm just lucky I kind of took the hormones kind of early on, within about a year of deciding, and after you're on female hormones 2.5-3 months, you kind of see how things feel a bit different and in what ways, then it gives you a better idea of maybe being a woman. I notice that when I'm on the hormones, I'm kind of the opposite of a person going into a party stage, I just become more modest and introverted and feeling more in control of things.

 

[JustGeorge]

I see. If I took all the preparation on appearance I wanted to, I'd be spending four hours a day. But the last few days I have spent 45 minutes each day.

I don't really have a solution since I've seen a lot of people kind of get emotional highs so to speak as part of the party life, then kind of burn out. And a lot of times, there's no telling them.

I'm just lucky I kind of took the hormones kind of early on, within about a year of deciding, and after you're on female hormones 2.5-3 months, you kind of see how things feel a bit different and in what ways, then it gives you a better idea of maybe being a woman. I notice that when I'm on the hormones, I'm kind of the opposite of a person going into a party stage, I just become more modest and introverted and feeling more in control of things.

I think hers is 2-4 hours of prep, mostly make up.

If I spent all the time I wanted to to prep for the day... I just wouldn't do it. Screw it. No need to dress up to sit around the house.

That's really interesting what you say about the hormones. That helps me understand some.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think hers is 2-4 hours of prep, mostly make up.

If I spent all the time I wanted to to prep for the day... I just wouldn't do it. Screw it. No need to dress up to sit around the house.

That's really interesting what you say about the hormones. That helps me understand some.

Hormones are evil. Especially female hormones. A lot of MtFs have crying fits and bouts first getting on hormones, and even after this initial phase we cry way more easily and more often than we used to. Emotional states are altered some, and even if you're known as an emotional guy female hormones still up that in a weird way. Our sex drive can change (mine became less trigger happy, more deliberate, more controlled, and better). And we too can have fluctuating hormones and have PMS (and when you also have IBS it can turn heads and get puzzled looks because it sounds a lot like having a period).

 

[JustGeorge]

Hormones are evil. Especially female hormones. A lot of MtFs have crying fits and bouts first getting on hormones, and even after this initial phase we cry way more easily and more often than we used to. Emotional states are altered some, and even if you're known as an emotional guy female hormones still up that in a weird way. Our sex drive can change (mine became less trigger happy, more deliberate, more controlled, and better). And we too can have fluctuating hormones and have PMS (and when you also have IBS it can turn heads and get puzzled looks because it sounds a lot like having a period).

Oh no! I wonder what she'd be like on hormones... she cries all the time already! Sometimes in dramatic displays... I remember her recently falling over in my living room and crying.

Just out of sheer curiosity, I wonder what the hormones are like for an FtM transition...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Oh no! I wonder what she'd be like on hormones... she cries all the time already! Sometimes in dramatic displays... I remember her recently falling over in my living room and crying.

Sounds like she'd be insufferable.
Me, instead of getting pissed off or going emotionally numb I'll now cry. If I get super anxious instead of feeling like I'm having a heart attack I'll cry. When I get overwhelmed, instead of fuses blowing in my head I cry. Before hormones Peter Jackson's King Kong was the only movie that made me cry. That number has went up by more than a bit, with movies like the Green Mile that now gets a stream of tears from me, or as the 10th Doctor is dying it's like a reservoir getting too full and when he says "I don't want to go" and begins regenerating the levees break.
The worst was when my car died in the Ari-Cal-Nav area, in the desert and heat, stranded far from home, on my own, and unsure about everything. I took everything I had to maintain my composure and not break down in tears over the situation. If I was on my own, I probably would have but I really didn't want others (this was alongside the freeway) to see me like that, lol.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Oh no! I wonder what she'd be like on hormones... she cries all the time already! Sometimes in dramatic displays... I remember her recently falling over in my living room and crying.

Just out of sheer curiosity, I wonder what the hormones are like for an FtM transition...

One thing I find cruelly unfair, guys have nothing comparable to growing boobs. Their balls don't get the growing pains, nor do they painfully learn one day they can't lie flat chested on the floor anymore.