whats your beef with brexit?

[TagliatelliMonster]

...And Europeans are going to be a minority within the world population.

"going to be"?
On what planet do you live?
When were europeans a majority in the world population? 2000-3000 years ago, perhaps?

Sooner or later.

Try a couple centuries ago.
We never were a majority in the modern age.

So a United Europe is much more than a trade community...it is a spiritual union, and it includes Switzerland, Norway and all the others who did not join.

Nobody is forced to join. Or stay for that matter. As indeed Switzerland, Norway and the UK have proven, and continue to prove.

So..we are not in the conditions to dictate anything to the British. They decided to leave and we should be their allies, no matter what they ask for.

Let's rephrase that and hopefully you can then see how idiotic and unreasonable that statement was:


They decided to leave and they should be our allies, no matter what we ask for.




Yes, we ARE their allies. But not "no matter what they ask for".
We are their ally. Not their b!tch.

 

[ChristineM]

Still I do not get why you want to rejoin the EU...with all those countries who are called racist by the Left...
Poland, Hungary, Romania...

You have been reading too much right wing propaganda

 

[Estro Felino]

You have been reading too much right wing propaganda

But it is true, though.
We are so different...the Slavic world thinks multiculturalism has failed.
There are no grounds to create a USE.

 

[ChristineM]

But it is true, thought.
We are so different...the Slavic world thinks multiculturalism has failed.
There are no grounds to create a USE.

I have see far more racism in the UK and italy than any EU country i have visited, including 3 Eastern European countries. Remember my kids are mixed race so we see the problems first hand

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

But it is true, though.
We are so different...the Slavic world thinks multiculturalism has failed.
There are no grounds to create a USE.

Your last statement has nothing whatsoever to do with your previous statements.
The reason for a united europe, is not at all "multi-culturalism".

Seems you have been keeping yourself so busy ranting about the EU, that in the process you forgot to take the time to actually understand why there are not only grounds for it, but how it really is the only way for any country on the continent to be able to compete with an ever globalizing world.


Good luck standing up to Putin's Russia or China or India or indeed the USA when you and your Italy are left alone to fend for themselves on some geopolitical island.

In fact, good luck standing up even only to a company like Google or Facebook.

Good luck negotiating trade agreements and being competitive in the process.

As one united block, the stakes and leverage one can wield is MUCH higher as it concerns a much bigger market with much larger capital involved.

I think the folks back in the UK may kiss their hands that Trump didn't actually get reelected, or a trade agreement with the US would have included sacrificing the NHS and having their market flooded with US big pharma and chlorine chickens.

I guess the Biden administration is going to be more reasonable. But... they'll give the british hell over the irish border though.

 

[Altfish]

Still I do not get why you want to rejoin the EU...with all those countries who are called racist by the Left...
Poland, Hungary, Romania...

I want to join the EU because we were prosperous within it; yes there are always racist, homophobic, etc elements but they were not in power.
I do not see a centre or left of centre party ever getting power again in the UK. If Scotland get independence we are totally sunk.

 

[Estro Felino]

I want to join the EU because we were prosperous within it; yes there are always racist, homophobic, etc elements but they were not in power.
I do not see a centre or left of centre party ever getting power again in the UK. If Scotland get independence we are totally sunk.

I understand your plight perfectly.
But the UK is a world power. The EU should have done anything to let the UK stay, so there would have been no referendum at all, in 2016.
And no Brexit.
So...it is the EU institutions at fault and their intransigence scares me. Because if they had granted Britain more concessions, there would have been no Brexit.

 

[Altfish]

I understand your plight perfectly.
But the UK is a world power. The EU should have done anything to let the UK stay, so there would have been no referendum at all, in 2016.
And no Brexit.
So...it is the EU institutions at fault and their intransigence scares me. Because if they had granted Britain more concessions, there would have been no Brexit.

The UK is NOT a world power anymore
It thinks it is and is on important gatherings but is totally irrelevant compared to the EU

 

[ChristineM]

I understand your plight perfectly.
But the UK is a world power. The EU should have done anything to let the UK stay, so there would have been no referendum at all, in 2016.
And no Brexit.
So...it is the EU institutions at fault and their intransigence scares me. Because if they had granted Britain more concessions, there would have been no Brexit.

The UK had every concession it needed, Maggie Thatcher negotiated a veto. If they liked a proposal they voted for it, if they didn't they blocked it.

 

[Martin]

The Scots are getting rowdy again.

 

[Altfish]

The Scots are getting rowdy again.

I fully approve

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

But the UK is a world power.

*was

The day of the british empire are behind us, and have been for quite some time.

The EU should have done anything to let the UK stay, so there would have been no referendum at all, in 2016.
And no Brexit.
So...it is the EU institutions at fault and their intransigence scares me. Because if they had granted Britain more concessions, there would have been no Brexit.

And if they would have done that, you would have complained about how "weak" the EU is.

In any case, what you say is off course nonsense.
The EU isn't the UK's b!tch.

 

[Estro Felino]

*was

The day of the british empire are behind us, and have been for quite some time.



And if they would have done that, you would have complained about how "weak" the EU is.

In any case, what you say is off course nonsense.
The EU isn't the UK's b!tch.

What changes then?
Since in the EU there is still struggle and competition among European countries instead of cooperation?

 

[Altfish]

What changes then?
Since in the EU there is still struggle and competition among European countries instead of cooperation?

It is supporting its members - which is what clubs do.

Look, I've said this many times before

The EU is NOT perfect, it has faults BUT being a member is far better than not being a member.
And when compared to UK government the EU is frighteningly honest.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What changes then?
Since in the EU there is still struggle and competition among European countries instead of cooperation?

Democracy - ever heared of it?

There is competition and struggle between political parties as well. Yet they cooperate in governing a country.
What you are saying, is the equivalent of saying that a country should bow down to the will of a single political party and ignore all the others.

 

[Estro Felino]

It is supporting its members - which is what clubs do.

Look, I've said this many times before

The EU is NOT perfect, it has faults BUT being a member is far better than not being a member.
And when compared to UK government the EU is frighteningly honest.

The EU is changing, indeed. Finally there is a European Commission (far from being perfect) led by a politician, a woman and not by a banker or a Freemason. That's progress.
Imagine that some years ago there was a EC president who used to say that extra terrestrials are watching us Europeans

 

[Estro Felino]

Democracy - ever heared of it?

There is competition and struggle between political parties as well. Yet they cooperate in governing a country.
What you are saying, is the equivalent of saying that a country should bow down to the will of a single political party and ignore all the others.

...for example the treaty of Aachen...
Is that fair?

 

[Altfish]

The EU is changing, indeed. Finally there is a European Commission (far from being perfect) led by a politician, a woman and not by a banker or a Freemason. That's progress.
Imagine that some years ago there was a EC president who used to say that extra terrestrials are watching us Europeans

Which is far superior to a country governed by rich privately educated toffs for the benefit of only themselves.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

...for example the treaty of Aachen...
Is that fair?

Don't play a cat and mouse game please.

Obviously you think there is something unfair about it.

Just state what you think is unfair about it.

 

[Estro Felino]

Don't play a cat and mouse game please.

Obviously you think there is something unfair about it.

Just state what you think is unfair about it.

A treaty within the EU should include all countries. Not just two. France and Germany.
It is implied that the EU is a pactum inter pares, that is all members are equally important.
Let's not forget that Aachen was the capital of the HRE.