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whats your beef with brexit?

Discussion in 'European Politics' started by England my lionheart, Aug 25, 2017.

  1. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    Sure,28 different governments cultures and economies,there is no unifying factor,all these economies vary so do earnings,its certainly not a level playing field.
     
  2. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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  3. The Holy Bottom Burp

    The Holy Bottom Burp Active Member

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    I didn't mean to generalise too much, it is not just that the EU was seen as economically advantageous for countries like Greece, I also suspect wealthy members like the fact that it preserves the status quo in terms of the balance of power (political and economic). Recession is beginning to recede now, but the countries most damaged by it was not the traditional powerhouses like Germany or the UK, it was the poorer nations. That is why I think some commentators think the UK is cutting off its nose to spite its face with Brexit. Not so I'd say, we do not owe our prosperity to the EU, or our economic resilience. We will have to renegotiate our trading terms with our trading partners, but the idea that we will be hit with prohibitive tolls on all our exports is scaremongering, it wont happen. Business is business, people will always want to trade regardless of the system of government, a war of taxation on imports helps nobody.
    Sure, the "free trade zone" makes sense, but that is nothing more than an administrative agreement between the countries that make up Europe. I won't tax the hell out of your exports if you don't tax the hell out of mine. It doesn't even call for a "single currency" if the truth be told, currency is just a way of counting the beans after all.

    The original intent of the EU may have been to help preserve peace in Europe, but the world is a very different place now. It is pretty much unthinkable that the major players in Europe would ever contemplate war in this day and age, or that an aggressive militaristic administration might gain power in Germany, France, Italy,Spain or the UK; extreme politics is a busted flush, it is possibly only the Islamic fundamentalists who think there is some mileage in it. However, that kind of thinking originates from religious belief, not rational thought or an appreciation of history. I accept there remains extreme left wing and right wing parties in Europe, but they represent minority thinking. Every now and then they gain publicity because they win a seat or two, but the general pattern is they come and go. People use them to register a protest vote.

    So, I think the UK leaving the EU may be the beginning of the end for it. If, as I suspect we will, carry on without economic calamity other nations may begin to question the value of it. If member states find themselves practically bankrupt again, begging for a loan to pay the bills, the people might just say "Why are we in this thing again?", and seek their own exit.
     
  4. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    a. I really hope that's right. b. Where's the well-informed, fully briefed, hard-nosed, experienced, highly skilled British Negotiating Team needed to effect this, right this moment?
    That brings up the enormously cumbersome voting system by which the enormously cumbersome EU Agreement can be amended. If this model fails as you say, the next try will sure look different.
     
  5. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    Spain Portugal Italy all under austerity too,highest unemployment for years and most probably years to come.
     
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  6. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Mr Micawber put it this way, you'll remember:

    "Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery."
    If they'd retained their own currencies, they'd still be suffering from their own economic vices, but they'd have a lot more economic flexibility than they do. Greece too, of course.
     
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  7. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    Exactly
     
  8. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    That is true of Brazil as well. It turns out that we are to a large extent descendants of those three cultures (mainly Portugal). We have never been a part of the EU.
     
  9. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    Scotland should be allowed to stay in. It benefits Scotland to be in the union even though England suffers for it.

    If Scotland is not allowed by the UK to remain in the EU, then Scotland should go independent. That's my two cents.
     
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  10. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    Could have been worse then.
     
  11. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    Tell that to Greece Spain Italy portugal
     
  12. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    I agree but I think the Scots showed in the election that they are not wanting independence showed
     
  13. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    There is supposed to be another election, so far delayed. I think it will be delayed until/unless unrest reaches a peak not seen before. It probably won't happen and Scotland will remain in the UK.
     
  14. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    I wish I knew. I certainly have no mistrust of the EU.
     
  15. Rival

    Rival The Unicorn Noahide
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    There is no other referendum scheduled.
     
  16. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    No, not yet.
     
  17. Rival

    Rival The Unicorn Noahide
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    I highly doubt they will schedule another one during Brexit negotiations.
     
  18. The Holy Bottom Burp

    The Holy Bottom Burp Active Member

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    To a. I'd say money is a great motivator, it tends to override everything else. I'm not worried that is about to change. To b. I'd say Politics is more guess work than a lot of politicians would like to admit, and to be honest we are entering new territory here; it was not seriously envisioned that we would leave the EU as a "mature" member by our own government, and no more the other members of the alliance. In true bureaucratic style I expect it to be a tad messy and long winded. We'll get there eventually though.
     
  19. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Pyrphóros ⚡ Lux Aeterna
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    It gets in the way of establishing a Pan-European Imperium.
     
  20. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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