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whats your beef with brexit?

Discussion in 'European Politics' started by England my lionheart, Aug 25, 2017.

  1. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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  2. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    We were also told that Brexiteers wanted to kick out the nurses, people would be dropping dead in the streets when their insulin ran out and the UK was on a fast track to becoming a 3rd world country.

    It's almost like many people just make up stuff that supports their own ideological agenda.

    If you find it entertaining to partake in tit-for-tat point scoring on statements that were clearly not going to turn out to be true when they were made, fair enough.

    You understand that something like this can only be judged in the long run though, and that demanding instant results is just part of the partisan games that increasingly replace rational discussion on contemporary political issues.

    If the EU moved in a political direction you didn't like, you might not see the power to hold it to account as being so trivial.

    If decentralisation would be good, why do you also support centralisation via the EU?

    If a win-win solution can't be agreed it's an inditement on both sides. Britain runs a massive trade deficit with the EU, if they choose to cut off their nose to spite their face there are at least some benefits to the UK.

    No idea what the overall long-term effects would be though, but then again nobody else does either.
     
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  3. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Our Matthew : I would choose Putin over Juncker.
    And it is true. Putin is ten times more loved here in Itsly than any EU technocrat


     
  4. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    @Augustus
    What do you think about Germany's behavior throughout the last 2 decades?
     
  5. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Whether its brexiters or the trepidation if brexit, nurses and other medical staff have been leaving the NHS and Britain. The NHS is now not only grossly underfunded it is dangerously under staffed.

    I have noticed that since late November the NHS has been tv advertising for trainee nurses. Interesting timing considering it takes at least 2 years to train a nurse.
     
  6. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    As i understand it approximately 75% of UK exports are destined for the EU. I see no benefit in loosing that trade

    Imports are mostly foodstuffs, again, there can be little benefit in stopping that trade either
     
  7. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    Can always hire them from non-EU countries. That might even become easier outside the EU, although I can't say I know a great deal about the technicalities in this regard.

    As long as the wages are much higher than in most countries, there will always be nurses willing to fill the vacancies.

    It's mostly manufactured goods, not food. Anyway, you don't 'lose'/'stop' that trade, it just becomes a bit less competitive.

    All we can do is wait and see what happens as nobody has a clue what the impact will be as there are still far too many unknowns, and humans suck at making predictions on complex issues.
     
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  8. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    So the advertising on UK TV is a waste of money.

    There are not that many countries outside the EU where nursing standards are comparable and they tend to value the nursing profession and pay a wage relative to the skill. The funding in the UK will not allow the NHS to complete. No doubt why one never sees American, Canadian or Japanese nurses clamouring to work in Britain.


    My mistake, i should have written 'imports include foodstuffs' which is why supermarkets are stockpiling

    I just hope the deal goes through without a hitch.
     
  9. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    What the Remain side says is irrelevant; just like what Corbyn said in the last election - totally meaningless.
    The side that wins have to deliver their promises.
    I don't think the EU prevents decentralisation, in fact you could argue it encourages it.
    The EU and the UK will both lose because of Brexit.
     
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  10. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Only if UK wants it.
    As for Italy, our PM has just said he wants to intensify the trade relations with Britain.
     
  11. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    If no deal is agreed then he will need to do that through the Eu and meet EU regulations which it seems britain wants do ditch in favour or lower quality.
     
  12. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    I would find the amount they have been able to enforce their interests over those of the citizens of a number of Eurozone countries, especially Greece, highly problematic were I a citizen of one of those countries.

    But the Euro illustrates the very worst of the EU: ideology and wishful thinking over what is best for the people. It also illustrates the tendency of the EU to double down on its errors rather than learning from their mistakes and dealing with the reality as it is rather than how they think it should be in theory.
     
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  13. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    Personally, I wouldn't spend my time complaining about the lack of instant results on something that will play out over the long term, but each to their own.

    What makes you think that?

    The EU by its very nature promotes centralisation: One size fits all rather than what is best for each. The EU has continually expanded its powers over the decades, ever closer union, and this is the opposite of decentralisation.

    They could easily enough both win. I don't have a great deal of faith in either side to get beyond posturing and ideology and actually focus on what is best for the people though.
     
  14. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    Advertising for nurses?

    Why would that be a waste of money?

    The NHS already hires many nurses from Commonwealth countries, as well as others like the Philippines. It will no doubt still be attractive to nurses from Eastern Europe too.

    There is no reason why it should be significantly more difficult to hire nurses outside the EU than in. Just a bit more red tape to cut through for Europeans. Perhaps even becomes easier for non-Europeans.
     
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  15. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    You said "Can always hire them from non-EU countries."

    Ahh, red tape. Get used to that

    As i said, that you seem to have ignored, Nurses from the countries with the standard of nursing that is expected pay better wages.
     
  16. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    When you have hundreds of thousands of workers, you recruit via many channels.

    EU regulations are also a notorious source of bureaucracy for many businesses.

    As I said, the NHS already employs tens of thousands of nurses from countries that you assume aren't good enough to meet EU standards.

    There are more non-EU nurses than there are EU nurses and by far the 2 biggest suppliers are India and the Philippines.

    NHS staff from overseas: statistics - Commons Library briefing - UK Parliament

    It's a bit outdated and Eurocentric to think that Asian or African countries are incapable of training nurses to the standard of Romania, Malta or Lithuania.

    Finding people with good enough language skills is generally more of an issue than finding someone with acceptable nursing qualifications (hence India and the Philippines being the source of so many).
     
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  17. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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  18. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    Promises, promises ...

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    [​IMG]

    Sums up political discourse these days - why listen to an expert when I have 'feelings'
     
  20. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    Despite #NotaNumber and co not being able to name a benefit of Brexit, I've found one..

    The EU have added the Cayman Islands to the tax blacklist. The UK had always vetoed it, watch all the rich Brexit backers move their monies out.
     
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