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What's Wrong With Pornography?

Jos

Well-Known Member
Are you claiming their "ED and a whole bunch of other sexual problems" are due to watching porn? If so, I don't buy it.
Not just looking at porn but masturbating to porn.
Ya got me, I'm no psychiatrist, although I do know you're in a very tiny minority of people.
If we're such a minority then why is the website and the NoFap movement growing?
And that's unfortunate, but I don't see their problem with porn outweighing its value. Keep in mind that it isn't only pornography that generates problems in the lives of people. People get caught up in all sorts of unhealthy or destructive behaviors from abusing their interests. I know of a couple who got divorced because the woman could no longer put up with her husband's passion for his model train layout. He even "broke" holes in two of the walls in their home so as to run train tracks between the rooms.
That's story's sad but the personal experiences of these people can't and shouldn't be ignored.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Not just looking at porn but masturbating to porn.

If we're such a minority then why is the website and the NoFap movement growing?

That's story's sad but the personal experiences of these people can't and shouldn't be ignored.

Truthfully, I see this as a reaction to the unhealthy way sex is treated in this society. Instead of actually talking about it and learning how to communicate with partners, learn what we like and dislike, and forming boundaries, the society as a whole tends to ignore sexual issues to a harmful degree. This causes an over-reaction like what we see in the NoFap groups.

But hey, if it works for you, go for it. Don't expect it to work for everyone (or even most people).
 

Jos

Well-Known Member
Well, like I said, the bonobos *do* have sex for pleasure.

I'm not sure why efficiency is the primary criterion to be used. Sex helps the formation of emotional bonds between people and that is much more important than reproductive efficiency.
Bonobos and which other animals copulate for pleasure?

It's inefficient because of how much time humans spend thinking about sex when they could be doing something else more productive and also because the money spent on producing porn could be spent on more important things like eliminating poverty, curing diseases etc.

Let's move the conversation towards meaning --- isn't sex ultimately meaningless anyway since its just a fleeting form of pleasure and it lasts for a few minutes anyway?
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Bonobos and which other animals copulate for pleasure?

It's inefficient because of how much time humans spend thinking about sex when they could be doing something else more productive and also because the money spent on producing porn could be spent on more important things like eliminating poverty, curing diseases etc.

Let's move the conversation towards meaning --- isn't sex ultimately meaningless anyway since its just a fleeting form of pleasure and it lasts for a few minutes anyway?

No. Among other things, it promotes bonding between people, which is a good thing full of meaning.This bond last far longer than the sex itself.

Sex also relieves tension, which reduces stress. In a society that is subject to *way* too much stress, this is not only a meaningful thing, but a very important thing for both mental and physical health.

It's clear that the main differences here are that I have a sex-positive attitude: I think sex is a good thing and is to be promoted and enjoyed.

You seem to have sex-negative attitude: you see sex as meaningless and something to be avoided. Is that fair?
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
My sister's little dog humps stuffed animals and gets obviously stimulated by it.

This is very common, especially in those animals that are not 'fixed' (what a word for it!) or that became sexually mature before being fixed.
 

Jos

Well-Known Member
No. Among other things, it promotes bonding between people, which is a good thing full of meaning.This bond last far longer than the sex itself.

Sex also relieves tension, which reduces stress. In a society that is subject to *way* too much stress, this is not only a meaningful thing, but a very important thing for both mental and physical health.

It's clear that the main differences here are that I have a sex-positive attitude: I think sex is a good thing and is to be promoted and enjoyed.

You seem to have sex-negative attitude: you see sex as meaningless and something to be avoided. Is that fair?
Yes I have sex negative view but it doesn't matter anyway. There's one question you forgot to answer: are there animals other than bonobos, cats or dogs who copulate for pleasure?
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes I have sex negative view but it doesn't matter anyway. There's one question you forgot to answer: are there animals other than bonobos, cats or dogs who copulate for pleasure?

I don't know. I'm not sure why it is relevant for this discussion, either.

/E: Actually, most primates masturbate with some frequency. You can see this at zoos if you look.
 

Jos

Well-Known Member
I don't know. I'm not sure why it is relevant for this discussion, either.

/E: Actually, most primates masturbate with some frequency. You can see this at zoos if you look.
It might not be relevant to the discussion but I want to know for my own personal information. Hmmm, I can't believe it, masturbation is actually normal in the animal kingdom. OK one last question about animals: are there animals that practice celibacy?
 

Dell

Asteroid insurance?
Well, I'm in favor of legalizing prostitution also. As it is done in, say, Amsterdam, it isn't like what you claim.
Would be interesting to poll current and post sex workers on the how it affects or has affected their lives. I don't know any to question, but it seems to be heavily entangled in drugs, assault, suicide, STDs, and bad marriages.

There are different sides to this, the viewers, the performers, and the producers. Like in a circus, people pay for the entertainment, but the animals get the stick and whip.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
It might not be relevant to the discussion but I want to know for my own personal information. Hmmm, I can't believe it, masturbation is actually normal in the animal kingdom. OK one last question about animals: are there animals that practice celibacy?

In some ape societies, there are many celibate members, but that tends to be an unwilling state of affairs. Dominant males and females get sex: those lower in the pecking order do not (well, there are exceptions). Voluntary celibacy is probably limited to humans. Some insects also have celibate individuals, but calling insect behavior voluntary is, well, debatable.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes I have sex negative view but it doesn't matter anyway. There's one question you forgot to answer: are there animals other than bonobos, cats or dogs who copulate for pleasure?

Well, it seems clear that if you have a negative view of sexuality, you will have a negative view of porn also. The converse is not likely to be true, though.
 

Dell

Asteroid insurance?
It might not be relevant to the discussion but I want to know for my own personal information. Hmmm, I can't believe it, masturbation is actually normal in the animal kingdom. OK one last question about animals: are there animals that practice celibacy?
I've heard this argument from the gay choice side, it doesn't hold any value to compare low intelligence behavior to high intelligence behavior. Dogs do things like eat poop, smell butts, and hump your leg.... does that justify human behavior if a human felt the urge to do it? We would think a person mad. If it is not natural to the purpose of the body then it's always a question of being unnatural and usually it has some implications attached.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
If we're such a minority then why is the website and the NoFap movement growing?
Perhaps you're unaware of the significance in the difference between growth numbers and growth rate.

Take a large company A whose customer base in a year goes from 33,785 to 34,123. Its additional 3,378 customers represent a 10% increase.

Now take a much smaller company B that has a customer base of only 66, which goes to 86 in a year. Obviously these additional 20 customers are not anywhere near the 3,378 additional customers of company A, but they represent a 30% increase. A growth rate 3 times that of company A.
So we have

Additional Customers.... Growth Rate​

Company A ....................3,378.....................10%
Company B..........................20.....................30%

Point being, growth rate can be deceptive, Be careful of the importance you assign it.

.


 
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Jos

Well-Known Member
In some ape societies, there are many celibate members, but that tends to be an unwilling state of affairs. Dominant males and females get sex: those lower in the pecking order do not (well, there are exceptions). Voluntary celibacy is probably limited to humans. Some insects also have celibate individuals, but calling insect behavior voluntary is, well, debatable.
If humans are evolved just like other animals then why would we have free will and they not have a sense of free will?
 

Jos

Well-Known Member
I've heard this argument from the gay choice side, it doesn't hold any value to compare low intelligence behavior to high intelligence behavior. Dogs do things like eat poop, smell butts, and hump your leg.... does that justify human behavior if a human felt the urge to do it? We would think a person mad. If it is not natural to the purpose of the body then it's always a question of being unnatural and usually it has some implications attached.
@Polymath257 what do you think of this argument?
 
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