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Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Jake1001, Sep 26, 2020.

  1. Jake1001

    Jake1001 Computer Simulator

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    I am left with no option but to join in debate here in the debate forum.

    The members of the Judaism DIR refuse to discuss topics of interest in the DIR.

    My own view is that traditional religion is obsolete and illogical. Man invented G-d not vice versa. Who wrote the Bible ? A bunch of Rabbi’s.

    What do you think??
     
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  2. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I can certainly agree that a bunch of ancient men wrote the Bible, and I find orthodox judaism and other traditional Abrahamic religions to be illogical.

    I also tend to think we create the God images we worship, although I wouldn't go so far as to say there is no God.
     
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  3. Jedster

    Jedster Well-Known Member

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    Shabat shalom Jake.
    Well, I have no idea who wrote the Bible and do agree with the emboldened above.
    You are obviously an atheist, so I am curious as to why you consider yourself Jewish.
     
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  4. IAMinyou

    IAMinyou Active Member

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    Unbelievers will think differently than believers but there is only ONE who thinks clearly today. Religions will never lead you to that ONE.
     
  5. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    If people don't learn how to read mythological and symbolic stories and text, and then read it, anyway, they will not likely find much of value in it. How could they? They don't know why it was written, or why they're reading it. And if, in their ignorance, these people then judge the material to be useless to them, what are we to think? Of course it was useless to them. How could it have been otherwise?
     
  6. bobhikes

    bobhikes Nowoligist
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    I understand why no in in the Dir will discuss with you. A dir is supposed to be for someone that practices and believes in the religion and clearly you don't.

    From Wilkapedia

    16% of the world's population is not affiliated with a religion, while 84% are affiliated.[9] Furthermore, the global study noted that many of the unaffiliated, which include atheists and agnostics, still have various religious beliefs and practices.

    Clearly religion is not obsolete but transforming. As to whether man invented god or god invented man all you need to do is prove your belief not deny another's belief.
     
  7. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    Its important to understand that the 'confession' of faith is one thing and the narrative that embodies it is another, and not on the same level.
     
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  8. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    The term Rabi wasn't introduced until the 1st century so they couldn't have written the TaNaKh

    In that they didn't, I would have to say that the Prophets and others wrote it under the command of G-d or a scribe wrote it was the Prophet spoke.

    G-d created man in His image. Man didn't like the terms so they created their gods in their image. IMV
     
  9. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    "Man invented God" is a statement you cannot prove. The existence of God can neither be proven nor disproven.

    God works most often through human hands. Why should it suprise us that human beings wrote the sacred texts? The fact that the Torah was written by men doesn't necessarily exclude God from the picture.

    Glad you brought this here. It is a far, far more appropriate forum than the DIR.
     
  10. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    The Rabbis are simply the direct successors to the Pharisees, who were the successors of the elders/judges that the Torah describes.

    I wouldn't go so far as to say that the entire Tanakh was written by Rabbis. It was also written by prophets, historians, poets, playwrights, etc.
     
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  11. WalterTrull

    WalterTrull Godfella

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    Would have given it a thumbs up, save for basted with anger.
     
  12. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    I think that is what I said but you said it much better.
     
  13. Nova2216

    Nova2216 Active Member

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    No doubt men wrote the bible and that cannot be denied.

    We must ask - How men wrote the bible?

    By a miracle the Holy Spirit led the apostles to write the words of Jesus in epistles (Jn 14:26 ; 16:13).

    The things those men wrote are the words of the Lord (2Peter 1:20,21) (1Cor. 14:37).

    2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
    21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


    Some believe / Some do not (Acts 28:24).
     
  14. WalterTrull

    WalterTrull Godfella

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    Just a thought:
    Men wrote the bible.
    Men (and women) are the children of God.
    Do children ever misbehave?
     
  15. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    You should read Gilgamesh and some of the Egyptian myths.

    Since a few geniuses deciphered ancient Egyptian and Babylonian its clear that many of the bible stories are complete rewrites of older stories, rewritten to change the moral or to have a moral. What was adoration of war was rewritten to emphasize peace, cooperation and feminine qualities. In those days masculinity was equated with warfare, stubbornness, anger. Rather than flaws these were considered awesome and to be immitated. Young men were encouraged to excel at fighting and to rapturously pillage. This was royalty, godliness and better than best. Over millennia circumcision and the Jewish story changed all of that. It seems (since I am guessing) circumcision is an extreme commitment to oppose war, to suppress the inner tendencies of violence rather than to tribute them. I observe it is a commitment that works.

    This changed the world for the better, so a bit of reverence is not uncalled for. I don't worry about it, however I note that if that Jewish fraternity ends we will have lost something immortal. I hope Jews find a way to keep things going and stay Jewish. What has worked in the past continues to work in many ways. Many people, such as yourself, question whether its necessary to go on as before. I don't know what to tell you. Some question if circumcision is still necessary and all the rituals and eating restrictions. I'm aware that a lot of the answers about origins are either lost or are secret, so nobody really knows why Jews don't eat certain foods or why they circumcise or why they won't do anything on the sabbath. For religious Jews answers always come down to Talmud which is their link to the past. For ages they lived with that as their only answers.

    What is divine about the Jewish books is that they have captured a ghostly image of God. They didn't start as a search for divinity but as search for cooperation. Jews have through this torah adventure of theirs discovered means to develop a way for people to live together peacefully, to welcome strangers, to acknowledge and use innovations. In this their mystics detected God, but as you probably know Torah is more important than what is mystical. It is action and not belief which matters. Those ancient ones together with Jews all along the millennia help to boot up modern life, making it possible. They continue also to help it to exist. The scriptures are analogous to the invention of the straightedge which can then be used to invent the lathe which can in turn be used to invent the engine which can then be used to mix cement.

    The question of obsolescence equals the question of whether modern society can be considered permanent. I don't think its permanent. I think humanity destroys itself regularly and fall back into trouble, at which point we need once again a straightedge. We start again from zero just trying to eliminate stupid ideas like "King of the mountain."
     
  16. Jake1001

    Jake1001 Computer Simulator

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    Thanks for sharing your thoughts, new friends. I will look more carefully at your individual posts. One point I will make is that I am Jewish, not atheist. Being Jewish is a combination of a number of factors, including: birth religion, cultural practice, philosophy, and is ultimately personal choice.
     
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  17. Jake1001

    Jake1001 Computer Simulator

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    The statement, “there is no G-d” is very broad and general. I have personally never seen evidence that there is a G-d. A panentheistic view is perhaps the most logical.
     
  18. Jake1001

    Jake1001 Computer Simulator

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    Hi, Jedster, indeed I consider myself Jewish. I share beliefs from the following Jewish movements: Reform, Reconstructionist, Renewal, Jewish Atheist and Humanist. My world view is strongly influenced by my being an engineer and scientist.
     
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  19. Jake1001

    Jake1001 Computer Simulator

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    Hi IAM, do you affiliate with a religion ?
     
  20. Jake1001

    Jake1001 Computer Simulator

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    Agreed we are discussing mythological and symbolic stories and the history is important. Unfortunately I feel there is little tolerance for this in the DIR’s. It is my way or the highway.

    I read a bit of mixed message in your post, are you referring to me or the members of the DIR ?
     
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