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Featured What's the word?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Tumah, Aug 10, 2016.

  1. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    This seems like an obvious question, but I don't see it having been asked.

    The NT says that Jesus is the word made flesh. What's the word? And what's the purpose of pointing out that it was a word?
    I mean, I know Psalms 33:6 says, "With the word of G-d, the heavens were made..." But obviously that's referring to all the times Genesis 1 says "And G-d said". "Let there be light" are the two words that created light, etc.
    And Isa. 40:8 says "...and the word of G-d will stand forever." But on context, that's obviously referring to the prophecy of that chapter. As many prophecies have something along the lines of "and the word of G-d was to me (Jer. 1:4)" or "Hear the word of G-d (Jer. 2:4, Isa. 66:5)".
    So we know that those "words" refer to things that G-d metaphorically spoke and we know what those words were.

    So what's the other word meant to be?
    I'm tempted to say, "Poof!", but...

    inb4: the bird.
     
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  2. atanu

    atanu Member
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    The following is Hindu idea.

    There are four levels of speech – para, pashyanti, madhyama, vaikari. Human beings speak only the fourth level. The language we speak is vaikari.

    Rig Veda 1.164.45 “catvari vak parimita padani tani vidur brahmana ye minishinah, guha trini nihita neengayanti turiyam vaco manushya vadanti
    The knowers know of the Vak (Word-Speech) that exists in four forms. Three are hidden and the fourth is what men speak.
    ....
    http://www.deccanherald.com/content/329144/four-levels-speech.html
    https://auromere.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/vedic-vak-four-levels-of-sound/

    http://www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/chittaranjan/advaita_chittaranjan.htm
     
  3. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    First lets start with what it is not; the gospel of John is made up, and thus has faulty theology.
    The word in an overall theological aspect is the code, that comes from the Source of reality (God).

    The word in a Biblical sense, is the continued message, and logic established by the Torah, then by the prophets, that fulfill the plan of YHVH.

    This is why they made up the concepts of the Logos (word), which stems from the root of the word logic; as they perceived it logically fitted with this same instruction within the Tanakh, yet clearly hadn't questioned all the logic presented. :innocent:
     
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  4. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I think it means, "I give you my word", which means a promise. So the Word of God is God's promise.
    When they wrote scripture it was written along with the promise of God that God does care for us.
     
  5. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    I was asking specifically about the Christian idea.
     
  6. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    That is an English idiom. Can you quote anything that explains it is also a Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek idiom?
     
  7. atanu

    atanu Member
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    Okay. Sorry then. But I think the idea is same.

    Rig Veda: In the beginning was the word (Vak), and the word (Vak) was with Brahman, and the word (Vak) was Brahman; (Prajapati vai idam agra asit, Tasya vak dvitiya asit, Vag vai paramam Brahma)
     
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  8. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Isaiah 55:11 Numbers 23:19 Isaiah 40:8 Isaiah 44:26 Isaiah 46:10 Isaiah 59:21

    I know (for myself) that these words do not refer to the written words or even to the Law because I can see (for myself) that some words were changed and some laws were changed, which means they were not written for forever.

    I can't show you that "I give you my word" means a promise in Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek, but you know that.:D I love you!
     
  9. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    That doesn't make more sense.
     
  10. atanu

    atanu Member
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    What does not make more sense? The spoiler?
     
  11. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    So you're saying, since the NT makes the Laws and prophecies temporal even though they are called eternal, the "word" in Tanach must mean something besides what the context makes it as.
    As self-serving as that is, it still doesn't explain what the word is.
     
  12. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Actually when I hit respond it didnt say spoiler in your post.
    But anyway, in Hinduism everything is Brahman, so there needs to be some specific gain for defining Brahman as a word, and what the word is.
     
  13. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Do you mean temporary? Because this is what I found: Temporal; relating to worldly as opposed to spiritual affairs; secular.
    The NT does not make the laws and prophesies temporal. Quite the opposite, I think.

    You know yourself that some laws are temporary laws because some laws are no longer being obeyed.
     
  14. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    Jesus is the Logos, and Logos is not a readily translatable term. It has a far more complex set of meanings than the English 'word' and is one of those words that probably should remain untranslated. Could be something like divine plan, divine mediator, or something to do with the word of God (or something else).
     
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  15. atanu

    atanu Member
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    Brahman and world are not on same ontological level. Word is non dual infinite Brahman, characterised by Consciousness .. pure power of cognition (but which in itself is without any cognition owing to its contrast-less non dual nature). It then, in dream like sequences, devolves through subject-object division and further by proliferation of names and forms to manifest the observed universe.

    I think that a similar concept is there in the Bible:
    In the beginning was the Word (logos)
    and the Word was with God (theos)
    and the Word was God.
    ...

    If you so wish then you can just read a link in my first post to see how, as per Vedas, word manifests itself through four stages.:)
     
  16. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Yes I meant temporary.
    No, there are no Laws that are no longer obeyed.
     
  17. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    What was the word Logos in the language it was originally written?
     
    #17 Tumah, Aug 10, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2016
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  18. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Are we talking about commands of Moses or something else? I do not know what 'Laws' means.
     
  19. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Yes. The Tanach doesn't speak about any other Laws.
     
  20. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Are the Ten commandments "Laws"?

    Because I know for a fact, that one of them is not being obeyed by anyone, because they do not know about it, because it has been changed. It being changed means the original did not last forever.

    You don't believe me.
     
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