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What's the single most important thing the President should address?

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
Sometimes it's better to focus on doing one thing really well, than tying to do many things half-assed.

What one thing should Biden try to do well?

A record number of illegal immigrants have died in 2022.
More record fentanyl deaths in the U.S. from illegal fentanyl coming across the border.
More than 2 million lillegal immigrants in 2021 with over 900,000 known to have eluded border security. With indications that these numbers will be surpassed before the end of 2022.

Probably the most important thing would be to secure the border and prevent these unecessary deaths. Unfortunately, it appears that Biden has no interest in securing the border. If Biden is not going to fulfill his duties as President, then the one thing he could do well would be to resign.

If Biden is having trouble doing anything well, then let him resign, let someone else step up.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
A record number of illegal immigrants have died in 2022.
More record fentanyl deaths in the U.S. from illegal fentanyl coming across the border.
More than 2 million lillegal immigrants in 2021 with over 900,000 known to have eluded border security. With indications that these numbers will be surpassed before the end of 2022.

Probably the most important thing would be to secure the border and prevent these unecessary deaths. Unfortunately, it appears that Biden has no interest in securing the border. If Biden is not going to fulfill his duties as President, then the one thing he could do well would be to resign.

If Biden is having trouble doing anything well, then let him resign, let someone else step up.

- The most secure border in the world would not substantially impact the availability of fentanyl.
- The vast majority of illegal immigrants are peacefully contributing to our society and our economy doing essential work that citizens mostly don't want to do.

Both of these problems are exacerbated by oligarchs, not Biden.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Stop the rising tide of fascism and white supremacism that's rising in the US.

IOW, the opposite of this:

I agree that these are serious problems. My take is that a key underlying reason for these issues is the wealth and income inequalities we've let fester and worsen.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Unfortunately, it appears that Biden has no interest in securing the border.
Biden is not for open borders, plus "Trump's fence" has more holes in it than limburger cheese.
If Biden is having trouble doing anything well, then let him resign, let someone else step up.
Did you say this about Trump, who literally tried to negate the results of the 2020 election?
Full Phone Call: Trump Pressures Georgia Secretary of State To Recount Election Votes | NBC News - YouTube
 

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
- The most secure border in the world would not substantially impact the availability of fentanyl.
- The vast majority of illegal immigrants are peacefully contributing to our society and our economy doing essential work that citizens mostly don't want to do.

Both of these problems are exacerbated by oligarchs, not Biden.

The U.S. Canadian border is the longest border between two countries in the world and over a five year period there were about 25,000 illegal crossings. There is clearly a problem with the U.S. Mexico border.

Large amounts of fentanyl come across the Southern border.

I am opposed to creating a non-citizen class of people. Are you aware of what it means to have a group of people in a country who are not citizens but who do the "work that citizens mostly don't want to do"? Once upon a time, slaves were brought to the U.S. They peacefully contributed to society and did essential work that citizens mostly didn't want to do - exactly the argument that slave-owners made. Oh, but the economic benefits of an underclass with no legal rights! You're right! Exploiting people for economic gain materially benefits you.

Biden issued many executive orders as soon as he got into office. He directly impacted border policy and the border problem has become orders of magnitude worse under his administration. Clearly he has exacerbated the problem regardless of oligarchs.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
The U.S. Canadian border is the longest border between two countries in the world and over a five year period there were about 25,000 illegal crossings. There is clearly a problem with the U.S. Mexico border.

Large amounts of fentanyl come across the Southern border.

I am opposed to creating a non-citizen class of people. Are you aware of what it means to have a group of people in a country who are not citizens but who do the "work that citizens mostly don't want to do"? Once upon a time, slaves were brought to the U.S. They peacefully contributed to society and did essential work that citizens mostly didn't want to do - exactly the argument that slave-owners made. Oh, but the economic benefits of an underclass with no legal rights! You're right! Exploiting people for economic gain materially benefits you.

Biden issued many executive orders as soon as he got into office. He directly impacted border policy and the border problem has become orders of magnitude worse under his administration. Clearly he has exacerbated the problem regardless of oligarchs.

Hey @Ponder This, you're putting words in my mouth, please don't do that!

I've said nothing concerning what I think paths to citizenship ought or ought not be, and there are many different approaches.

Can you provide any links to support the claim that things have gotten worse under Biden? I usually think that it's hard to attribute slow moving trends to specific presidents.

Finally, I just don't believe it's a good idea to try to forcibly limit people's movements. Even if you have moral or ethical grounds - which are hard for me to imagine - I think such projects just don't work.

I think it would be far better to ask "why do people use drugs like meth and fentanyl?"

Why do you think they do?
 

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
Hey @Ponder This, you're putting words in my mouth, please don't do that!

Not sure what you are referring to, but feel free to state your positions clearly.

Hey I've said nothing concerning what I think paths to citizenship ought or ought not be, and there are many different approaches.

Illegal immigrants aren't citizens. This is not a statement of your position; it's a statement of fact.

Hey Can you provide any links to support the claim that things have gotten worse under Biden? I usually think that it's hard to attribute slow moving trends to specific presidents.

rising_border_encounters_in_2021_figure_2_2-882x427.png

wola_migration_charts.001-5.jpeg


wola_migration_charts.051.jpeg


Biden's Executive Actions: President Unilaterally Changes Immigration Policy

Hey Finally, I just don't believe it's a good idea to try to forcibly limit people's movements. Even if you have moral or ethical grounds - which are hard for me to imagine - I think such projects just don't work.

You don't mean in general principle do you? Speed limits? Covid travel bans? Etc. On its face, it seems to me like a reckless position. With regard to immigration, we are talking about the movements of millions of people across a border. It is negligent not to consider the impact of this many people.

Hey I think it would be far better to ask "why do people use drugs like meth and fentanyl?"

Why do you think they do?

Most fentanyl overdoses occur in users who don't know the drug is there. Fentanyl is mixed with drugs such as heroine, cocaine, and methamphetamine and made to resemble other opioids.

Fentanyl Facts
Fentanyl-laced drugs are extremely dangerous, and many people may be unaware that their drugs are laced with fentanyl.

People use drugs because they are addicted to them. If you can solve drug addiction that'd be great, but in the meantime, do you have an argument against regulating fentanyl?
Overdoes Deaths in the U.S. Reached Record Levels in 2021
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Not sure what you are referring to, but feel free to state your positions clearly.

If you have questions about what I've written, just ask.

Illegal immigrants aren't citizens. This is not a statement of your position; it's a statement of fact.

Jeez. I know illegals aren't citizens. That's why I said "paths to citizenship". So this is yet another strawman you've created.

You don't mean in general principle do you? Speed limits? Covid travel bans? Etc. On its face, it seems to me like a reckless position. With regard to immigration, we are talking about the movements of millions of people across a border. It is negligent not to consider the impact of this many people.

Yet another strawman. This approach you're taking is getting tiresome quickly. I would offer that if you have good arguments, you should not need to strawman mine.

Most fentanyl overdoses occur in users who don't know the drug is there. Fentanyl is mixed with drugs such as heroine, cocaine, and methamphetamine and made to resemble other opioids.

I'm happy to grant you this point, but it seems off-topic.

People use drugs because they are addicted to them. If you can solve drug addiction that'd be great, but in the meantime, do you have an argument against regulating fentanyl?

You've shifted the goalposts here. Your earlier position was about border security. Now you're talking about regulating drugs. Those are both valid topics to discuss, but they're not interchangeable.

To restate my earlier point: If you were to somehow construct an impenetrable wall, you'd only put a minor dent, temporarily, in the supply of dangerous drugs into the US.
 

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
If you have questions about what I've written, just ask.

o_O
...I did ask...
:confused:

Jeez. I know illegals aren't citizens. That's why I said "paths to citizenship". So this is yet another strawman you've created.

What are you talking about? I made a statement. You agree. You could've simply said you agree with my statement. Why are you pontificating about strawmen?

Yet another strawman. This approach you're taking is getting tiresome quickly. I would offer that if you have good arguments, you should not need to strawman mine.

I asked you to clarify your statement. Accusing me of creating strawmen is a curious way to respond. What are you talking about? And don't just say I'm trying to tell you what your position is. I'm trying to figure out what your position is! You made a very general statement about forcibly limiting people's movements. What do you mean?

I'm happy to grant you this point, but it seems off-topic.

It was in response to the question you posed:
I think it would be far better to ask "why do people use drugs like meth and fentanyl?"

Why do you think they do?
The answer is: people don't know they are using fentanyl!
Fentanyl is on topic because so much fentanyl comes across the border - illegally.

You've shifted the goalposts here. Your earlier position was about border security. Now you're talking about regulating drugs. Those are both valid topics to discuss, but they're not interchangeable.

Fentanyl comes across the border. A less secure border means more fentanyl comes across the border. A more secure border means less fentanyl comes across the border.

To restate my earlier point: If you were to somehow construct an impenetrable wall, you'd only put a minor dent, temporarily, in the supply of dangerous drugs into the US.

It is clear that "more than a minor dent" of fentanyl is currently coming across the more penetrable border under the Biden administration (more than double the amount of fentanyl).

The U.S.-Mexico border might be the single most important thing the President ought to address and not do half-assed.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
...I did ask...

sometimes you ask, other times you put words in my mouth.

Fentanyl comes across the border. A less secure border means more fentanyl comes across the border. A more secure border means less fentanyl comes across the border.

This is true, but to a lessor degree than most people think. It's vaguely similar to building sea walls. Yes, you can do it, like in the Netherlands, but it's an enormously costly and complex undertaking.

The bottom line is that "the war on drugs" has basically failed. We need to look at why people take harmful drugs. For the sake of discussion, I'll agree that people don't take fentanyl on purpose, it's used to spike drugs like heroin, meth and cocaine.

Okay, so why do people take these harmful drugs? I would say that poor living conditions are highly correlated. That, and the fact that as long as these drugs are illegal, a LOT of criminal activity will ensue. And this is true no matter how tight you try to make border security.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Until we stop the legalized bribery of the state and federal legislatures, and throw out all the current incumbents in both parties, nothing else matters. Nothing else can possibly be fixed.
 

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
sometimes you ask, other times you put words in my mouth.

And... you still didn't answer my questions about what you mean or what your position is. Three times you didn't answer. And three times you talked about me putting words in your mouth when I'm asking you to use your words to tell me. :(

My position is this: the President is responsible for border security. He should stop illegal immigration instead of enabling it.

This is true, but to a lessor degree than most people think. It's vaguely similar to building sea walls. Yes, you can do it, like in the Netherlands, but it's an enormously costly and complex undertaking.

The bottom line is that "the war on drugs" has basically failed. We need to look at why people take harmful drugs. For the sake of discussion, I'll agree that people don't take fentanyl on purpose, it's used to spike drugs like heroin, meth and cocaine.

Okay, so why do people take these harmful drugs? I would say that poor living conditions are highly correlated. That, and the fact that as long as these drugs are illegal, a LOT of criminal activity will ensue. And this is true no matter how tight you try to make border security.

You seem to be focused on the war on drugs instead of on the issue of border security.
Are you trying to say that the war on drugs is the one thing the President should do well and not half-***?

I think that because border security impacts drug availabilty border security can impact the war on drugs as well. But it's not clear to me how the war on drugs can impact border security.

Moreover, I'm not so sure that you can cure addiction. As far as the correlation of living conditions to addiction, I think that addiction generally destroys people's lives and leads them into poor living conditions. Most people are not so wealthy that they can afford their addiction and not worry about the consequences. And if you are in poor living conditions when you become addicted, then addiction generally prevents you from escaping poverty. Yet even if you did escape poverty, you would still be addicted. But if we reduce the availability of fentanyl, then at least fewer people will die to their addictions as fentanyl is not an essential component of their drug addictions.

Moreover, the President is more directly responsible for securing the border than he is responsible for drug addictions. There are clear actions the President should take to secure the border: Remain in Mexico policy, end Catch and Release, and enforcing existing laws are examples. Hey, there's also a wall that could be completed, which is not nothing. He should also pressure Congress to pass additional legislation to clear up problems such as laws that force family separations, which are still on the books and which Congress, whose responsiblility it is to pass laws, has still done absolutely nothing to amend. Very disappointing.

But it's not clear to me what the President should do about drug addicition. What do you think the President should do to solve the addiction problem?
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
To summarize two of my opinions:

1 - I think border walls are largely ineffective, and so a waste of time and money.
2 - I think addiction is a HUGE problem, but making criminals out of addicts is another ineffective and life crushing approach.

So we have to look at the causes of addiction in the first place and tackle those.

But I also think that virtually everyone in DC is in the pockets of big money, and big money is one of the biggest underlying reasons that we have an addiction crisis. So I don't think Biden or anyone else can really tackle this issue until everyone gets serious about moving the US away from being the oligarchy it's become.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The single most important thing President Biden should address is his relationship with the Almighty.
 
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