What's the purpose behind believing in something that cannot be proven true?

[chinu]

1. Leaves fall from the tree to land on the ground in Autumn.
2. Sometimes. Sometimes they hang there on the tree gathering snow.

Both the examples are same.

 

[Willamena]

Both the examples are same.

Yes. Am I certain that leaves fall in the Autumn?

Perhaps I am missing something in the arguments.

Edit: I guess I don't understand your examples.

 

[chinu]

That's one way to look at it.

Its ONLY the thing you look at.
But, there are also many other things to look at.

 

[Bird123]

You assumptions are sloppy. I have gave up the search for them when I no longer owned anything that they would open.


Sorry. I don't understand your 'On the other hand...' sentence. Am I supposed to be disagreeing with it?


No. Burden of proof is on the claimant. If it were not, you would be forced to accept every single contradictory claim that you do not have the time to personally investigate as true.

There is no rational reason to start on the basis that any theistic claim falls under the category of "truth". They are just noise until some one can demonstrate one.


No. As of yet, all theists have pointed at are their personal desires and fears. Nothing extant. This has given us some honestly great stories and literary tropes and archetypes. Not to mention insight into the psyches of individuals and cultures. But nothing beyond the physical world.


Sorry, but that isn't my line of reasoning, or the reason that I eschew your religious beliefs. My non-agreement doesnt mean bupkis about what actually exists. There could be a god. But it doesn't matter until that can be demonstrated.

Even if there is, in reality, a god, neither you, nor the adherents of any other religion I have encountered, knows jack-all about it.

your quote:No. Burden of proof is on the claimant. If it were not, you would be forced to accept every single contradictory claim that you do not have the time to personally investigate as true.
My Answer:Who is forcing anyone??? Has religion corrupted your thinking that everything should be rejected or accepted and that all the work of discovery should be by the one making the statement??

Truth is not what you seek. Just like religion, Beliefs are what matter to you. If one really cares for Truth, one will seek answers regardless of what anyone else believes or says. One will find the proof for oneself.

your quote:There could be a god. But it doesn't matter until that can be demonstrated.
My Answer:Are you waiting for others to demonstrate all the knowledge you acquire in this world??

your quote:Even if there is, in reality, a god, neither you, nor the adherents of any other religion I have encountered, knows jack-all about it.[/QUOTE]
My Answer: If you limit your view, how can you ever Discover anything? Truth will never always be an agreeable thing. On the other hand, one can create Beliefs one can always agree upon, however what have you really got in doing so?

All the secrets on the universe stare us all in the face. How long did mankind watch birds fly before they figured out how? God hides nothing.

The first thing God pointed out to me is that mankind carries such a Narrow view. I cry that!!

As I said before, I see little difference between atheists and theists. Seems, they both value Beliefs above all else, thereby shaping those beliefs to the agreeable view they really want to exist.

Still, choosing what one wants to Discover is a big part of God's system. Free choice is an important thing. On the other hand, shouldn't one want to Discover something instead of always waiting for it to come to them with all the evidence that would make accepting the only task? This hungry student could never settle for that. Knowing is so much better than believing.

Do you mistake me for a person wanting you to believe in God? Believing has never ever been important to God. It doesn't matter to me either. I simply place Truth in the world. What anyone else does with Truth is entirely up to them. They all have my blessings.

No one's journey depends on me. On the other hand, I think it's important for Truth to be in the world for those who are ready to Discover for themselves. It's just like those birds flying. It waits to be Discovered.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[MonkeyFire]

Atheists need, actually.

They will NOT unless given scientific proof.

They do need to, but they don't have to

 

[chinu]

They do need to, but they don't have to

Who's forcing ?

 

[ppp]

your quote:No. Burden of proof is on the claimant. If it were not, you would be forced to accept every single contradictory claim that you do not have the time to personally investigate as true.
My Answer:Who is forcing anyone??? Has religion corrupted your thinking that everything should be rejected or accepted and that all the work of discovery should be by the one making the statement??

That is not a response to what I said. You might want to throttle back on the purely emotional knee-jerk and actually read the words that were said. For content.

your quote:There could be a god. But it doesn't matter until that can be demonstrated.
My Answer:Are you waiting for others to demonstrate all the knowledge you acquire in this world??

Nope. I have done sufficient research (probably far more than any five religious people you know) to satisfy myself that the god claims of the major religions, and several of the minor ones, have no rational foundation. But even had I not done so, the burden of proof for your claims would still have been all upon you. Your beliefs are not assumed to be true until someone disproves them. Have some humility, Bird.

As I said before, I see little difference between atheists and theists. Seems, they both value Beliefs above all else, thereby shaping those beliefs to the agreeable view they really want to exist.

I don't say this often, but that is just stupid. The world is full of things that I don't like. Things that I find profoundly disagreable. All things that rank far, far higher in importance and relevance than whether or not gods exist. If I shaped my beliefs to (as you put it) the agreeable view I really want to exist, then I would not believe those things either. You may shape your beliefs to an agreeable view. I don't.

And I will point out that when I stopped believing in God, that God was still my agreeable view. Ya goof.

Do you mistake me for a person wanting you to believe in God? Believing has never ever been important to God. It doesn't matter to me either. I simply place Truth in the world. What anyone else does with Truth is entirely up to them. They all have my blessings.

What you want or don't want is completely up to you. I am simply commenting on the erroneous content of your posts.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Healthier, happier & live longer is NOT the case for ALL theists. Some do, and at the same time others don't. All it depends on one's own past deeds. True theist accepts the result of both good and bad deeds without any question. Whereas, buffer against depression and anxiety is just the by product of accepting the result of deed's without any question, NOT benefit.

The research only showed the correlation with regular attendance of religious community. So I can't say if being a theist outside a community has the same benefits or not. Also, the attendance is statistically significant, meaning that it doesn't work with every single person, but with a significant number of people, a number that is enough to say that there is a strong correlation.

 

[chinu]

The research only showed the correlation with regular attendance of religious community. So I can't say if being a theist outside a community has the same benefits or not.

Loll.. the one who is enjoying real God's company, does NOT require any human community.

Also, the attendance is statistically significant, meaning that it doesn't work with every single person, but with a significant number of people, a number that is enough to say that there is a strong correlation.

 

[Bird123]

That is not a response to what I said. You might want to throttle back on the purely emotional knee-jerk and actually read the words that were said. For content.

Nope. I have done sufficient research (probably far more than any five religious people you know) to satisfy myself that the god claims of the major religions, and several of the minor ones, have no rational foundation. But even had I not done so, the burden of proof for your claims would still have been all upon you. Your beliefs are not assumed to be true until someone disproves them. Have some humility, Bird.


I don't say this often, but that is just stupid. The world is full of things that I don't like. Things that I find profoundly disagreable. All things that rank far, far higher in importance and relevance than whether or not gods exist. If I shaped my beliefs to (as you put it) the agreeable view I really want to exist, then I would not believe those things either. You may shape your beliefs to an agreeable view. I don't.

And I will point out that when I stopped believing in God, that God was still my agreeable view. Ya goof.


What you want or don't want is completely up to you. I am simply commenting on the erroneous content of your posts.

your quote:Nope. I have done sufficient research (probably far more than any five religious people you know) to satisfy myself that the god claims of the major religions, and several of the minor ones, have no rational foundation.
My Answer: You didn't find your keys either, did you?? If no religion really understands God and you base everything on religion, how are you to Discover anything about God at all? Where would you search for God? How would you understand God and what God is all about?? Where is that wide view? Where is that Intellect working?? Where are your answers? If it's hard, do you give up on the search??

your quote:All things that rank far, far higher in importance and relevance than whether or not gods exist.
My Answer: Now we are getting to the Real Truth. You do not care whether God exists or not. That's OK. The question remains: Why do you care theists believe God exists?? Has religion hurt you in some way? Why is discrediting them more important than Discovering the Real Truth? At least with the real truth it would be more than simply an argument over beliefs.

Discovery takes lots or work and intellect. Who has time for that? Right? It's a good thing there is no time limit on learning.

your quote:I am simply commenting on the erroneous content of your posts.
My Answer: I have yet to see how they are erroneous. With whom is the view lacking? Conclusions made through a narrow or limited view usually results in a bad call.

What specifically is my error??? Putting the Truth out there??

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[ppp]

your quote:Nope. I have done sufficient research (probably far more than any five religious people you know) to satisfy myself that the god claims of the major religions, and several of the minor ones, have no rational foundation.
My Answer: You didn't find your keys either, did you?? If no religion really understands God and you base everything on religion, how are you to Discover anything about God at all? Where would you search for God? How would you understand God and what God is all about?? Where is that wide view? Where is that Intellect working?? Where are your answers? If it's hard, do you give up on the search??

First. I am sorry, but your god is not comparable to my keys. I have both tangible, practical, testable and directly demonstrable evidences that my keys actually existed. You have no such thing for your god.
Second, your assumption that I "base everything on religion" is one that you made up out of whole close. It is a false assumption.
Third, your series of question are your problem. Not mine. You are the one who claims that there is a god. It is the fact that you cannot demonstrate that you have answers to any of those questions that I do not believe you.

your quote:I am simply commenting on the erroneous content of your posts.
My Answer: I have yet to see how they are erroneous. With whom is the view lacking? Conclusions made through a narrow or limited view usually results in a bad call.

I know you don't. You do not even seem to have a grasp on what my objections to your claims are. Either that or you do understand them, and simply refuse to address them. Either way, same result.

 

[David J]

My answer is: No profit/benefit.
Hence, nobody believe something that cannot be proven to be true.

Actually, this is a very good question that often arise in the mind of an atheists. A very good question because.. Often, atheists get lost into thinkings finding answer to this question.

I really like this question because there's certainly something to be gained by NOT believing in claims until any evidence supports that belief.

BUT, what's the purpose behind believing in something that cannot be proven to be true? People unnecessarily dishonor theists.

The profit/benefit is when many great minds try to disprove it, and can't.

 

[chinu]

The profit/benefit is when many great minds try to disprove it, and can't.

Actually, theist says that "God" suggest him/her how to answer the question of an atheist.

God's mind is the greatest mind. Nobody can defeat "Him" in a debate.

Hence, the defeat of an atheist is for sure without any doubts.

 

[David J]

Actually, theist says that "God" suggest him/her how to answer the question of an atheist.

God's mind is the greatest mind. Nobody can defeat "Him" in a debate.

Hence, the defeat of an atheist is for sure without any doubts.

You're way too deep man. Out.

 

[chinu]

You're way too deep man. Out.

Actually its NOT me, It's the theist who suggested me how to answer you this question. And, perhaps "God" may have suggested that theist how to answer this question.

Don't worry its NOT me who defeated you, its "God" who defeated you.

And there's NO harm in getting a defeat from "God"

 

[Martin]

To me belief seems pointless, and a little neurotic. Acknowledging possibilities feels more worthwhile

 

[chinu]

To me belief seems pointless, and a little neurotic.

Have heard that it always happens in the starting. But, settle down later on.

Acknowledging possibilities feels more worthwhile

Have heard this too.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes. Am I certain that leaves fall in the Autumn?
Perhaps I am missing something in the arguments.

You may have described temperate regions but not the tropical regions.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The first thing God pointed out to me is that mankind carries such a Narrow view. I cry that!!
As I said before, I see little difference between atheists and theists.
Still, choosing what one wants to Discover is a big part of God's system.
Do you mistake me for a person wanting you to believe in God?

I don't, but why do you write such ambiguous things as if someone has proved the existence of God. Not all atheist are like that.

 

[Bird123]

First. I am sorry, but your god is not comparable to my keys. I have both tangible, practical, testable and directly demonstrable evidences that my keys actually existed. You have no such thing for your god.
Second, your assumption that I "base everything on religion" is one that you made up out of whole close. It is a false assumption.
Third, your series of question are your problem. Not mine. You are the one who claims that there is a god. It is the fact that you cannot demonstrate that you have answers to any of those questions that I do not believe you.


I know you don't. You do not even seem to have a grasp on what my objections to your claims are. Either that or you do understand them, and simply refuse to address them. Either way, same result.

your quote:You have no such thing for your god.
My Answer: My god? Does anyone really own anything?

Your Assumptions are not correct. I do have evidence that God exists. It's the same evidence that I know you exist. On the other hand, I have no evidence your keys exist or ever existed. Are you delusional??? OK! OK! I will believe the keys exist until it becomes important enough to Discover the Truth by finding your keys for you.

Now if you want me to serve up the proof God exists, the best I can do is point you in a direction by which you will be capable of Discovering the truth for yourself. How badly do you want it? Discovery takes a lot more work than accepting beliefs served up on a plate. Search your soul. What do you really want?

I think religion has influenced many many people either directly or indirectly regardless of whether they see it or not. Perhaps there is more that you can Discover about yourself.

Finally, to Question is the start on the journey to Discovery. To question is never a problem. It is a Solution!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!