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Featured What's the difference between magic tricks and miracles?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Katzpur, Apr 26, 2019.

  1. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Many theists believe in miracles but not in magic. Most atheists I've talked to dismiss both miracles and magic. It seems to be that there's a close relationship between the two. Magic is defined as "the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces." A miracle is said to be "a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency."

    To me, the difference is primarily in that, where magic is concerned, we recognize that the magician is performing a trick by sleight of hand or some such thing. We know that it's explainable, even if we can't figure out how he does it. When we describe something as a miracle, we simply say that there is no explanation for what happened. The theist will give credit to God and the atheist will say that there is a scientific reason behind it, even if we can't understand what it is.

    In my opinion, magic is something certain humans can perform that appears to baffle other humans. Miracles are something God can perform that appears to baffle all humans. Other than that, there is really no difference. Neither one breaks any laws of nature, but both require us to recognize that there are events in life for which we have no explanations. This is not due to the fact that they cannot be explained. We just haven't found the answers to them yet.
     
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  2. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    About 60 bucks a ticket in Vegas....
     
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  3. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    Magic one tries to manipulate reality themselves. Miracle, an intermediary, a deity has manipulated reality for your benefit. Science, someone has tested the cause and effect of how reality was manipulated.

    Science is generally more reliable but still not 100%
     
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  4. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Technically a "magic trick" is what a magician does. He fools people so that it appears as if something occurred by magic. But if you got rid of the word "trick" then there really would not be any difference between magic and miracles. In fact if you read Genesis you can see that God used both oral spells, he spoke things into existence, and a golem spell, he made the first man from dirt.

    By the way not all miracles are welcome events. The miracle of the dividing of the Red Sea was not a welcome event when Moses undid it to Pharaoh's army at least. Once one realizes that the "welcome" part of the definition often does not belong in there.
     
  5. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    To me a "miracle" is from an Eastern perspective using hidden laws to make something happen.

    What is a Miracle?
    The term miracle can be simply defined as "that which causes wonder." A miracle is something that contradicts or is beyond ordinary experience, and is caused by some kind of supernatural force or being--God or a God. In one view of miracles, God suspends the laws of nature to produce an astonishing happening. In the other, a miracle is an effect in our world of the natural forces of a higher plane of reality. Hindus reject the notion that miracles contradict science. The so-called "science" of today has limited its knowledge by rejecting a priori any reality beyond that perceived by the physical body's five senses.

    Hinduism Today Magazine
     
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  6. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    Miracles are just interpretations of phenomena.

    Science is the explanation of phenomena through presented and tested information that's been verified.
     
  7. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    When I was doing research on magic years ago (magic magic, not stage magic), one scholar put the problem aptly: magic is a word that works too hard in the English language. It means many different things that have limited concordance with one another. The same is, to some extent, true of the term miracles. Thus, in simple terms, the difference between "magic" and "miracles" is nonexistent to vast depending on how the terms are being defined.

    Speaking from the perspective of the contemporary Pagan community, I've noticed the term "miracle" is just not used that often. The reasons for that would require further study, but I do not use the term because it carries implications that do not track well within a polytheistic worldview or a magical worldview. I can expand upon that later if requested. At the risk of oversimplifying, the distinction between "magic" and "miracles" Pagans recognize would be: magic is a practice and a miracle is an occurrence.
     
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  8. Zita

    Zita Solitary Eclectic Witch

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    Bravo!!!!!!!!!!
     
  9. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    In my own view, there really is not much difference between magic and miracles. Having spent some time studying magic, and learning quite a few very good illusions, I know one thing: whatever that guy on the stage did, there's an explanation in reality, whether I know what that explanation is or not.

    As for miracles, if something totally inexplicable happens, whether something good comes of it or not, there is still an explanation in reality -- whether I, or anybody else, has worked out what it is yet.
     
  10. Left Coast

    Left Coast Peanut Butter Enthusiast
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    How can we tell the difference between an actual miracle done by God and an event that has no known explanation yet but wasn't done by God?
     
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  11. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    What's the difference between magic tricks and miracles?

    "Some laws are known to man and some other overriding laws also exist but are unknown to man. So, a miracle appears to be a miracle to the ordinary person when he knows only the superficial laws known to people of his time, but he does not know the other set of overriding laws which exist as laws without breaking the other set of laws.

    I hope one understands that a miracle does not break any law. A miracle is the operation of an unseen law."
    Right, please?

    Regards
     
  12. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    A lot more than that at a miracle healers crusade. :p
     
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  13. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    Magic tricks are real.
     
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  14. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Good question. I guess it gets down to the fact that there probably is an explanation to any "miracle" but when we don't know what it is, we attribute it to God. Maybe someday He'll explain to us how He did some of the incredible things that left us baffled.
     
  15. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    I knew it!
     
  16. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    This is a guess first try: A miracle is magic that confers a transcendent and eternal meaning. It is like the difference between noise and art.
     
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  17. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    One is a work of God and one is either trickery or a work of Satan
     
  18. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Hi..... :)
    Joseph and Jesus were described in the Greek bibles as 'tectons', or so I have read. Tecton can be translated into English as 'handworker' and also as 'Magi'.
    I reckon that many of the miracles of Jesus were true events that became exaggerated. He was both tecton and magi, maybe?

    Extreme atheists dismiss the entire bible as myth. It's a level of denial that only a fundamentalist in deep denial could cling to.

    Because Jesus amazed people with his abilities, and because they were deeply superstitious..... there it is, both the magic and the miracle together.

    Neither would be bad. When a doctor makes a patient well through auto-suggestion it is neither a trick nor a miracle, although to the patient it could seem like a miracle. Jesus was very very clever, I think.

    I like it when atheists talk of 'scientific reason' because at least they do accept that some of the events really happened.
    Fair enough.
    I can accept most of the reports of miracles in G-Mark. But the claims of G-John I cannot accept.... I don't even believe that apostle John was disciple John because although many of the anecdotes, stories and reports in his gospel seem to be true he didn't actually know when they occurred..... he put the final actions of Jesus (the Temple demonstrations, picketing and debates) at the beginning of the story.

    And so some of the stories don't seem like miracles or magic to me, but imaginations.
     
  19. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Then I guess that I do not know of any extreme atheists. By the way, a deist would also believe that miracles were at best misinterpretations of observed events.
     
  20. Left Coast

    Left Coast Peanut Butter Enthusiast
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    Right. Which means we're really never rationally justified in concluding that something is a miracle, because it could also be (and more than likely is) a thing we just can't explain the natural cause for yet.

    Or maybe he hasn't done any of the things that left us baffled?
     
    #20 Left Coast, Apr 27, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
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