1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured What's the Deal with Evolution?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Rival, Jul 1, 2021.

  1. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    17,286
    Ratings:
    +12,362
    Religion:
    Christian
    I simply do not see the threat to God in the theory.

    It is a theory that has massive evidentiary support. It does not deny that God had a part in it. There is just no evidence of the actions of God found in the evidence and include in the theory as explanatory. That is true of all scientific theories and the evidence they explain. Are you claiming that Newton and Einstein should attribute aspects of gravity to God in the theories they formulated. By not doing so, that they are rejecting God or claiming he had no part. For I know of no reference to God in those theories.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    11,812
    Ratings:
    +7,811
    Religion:
    Love, Light, and Life
    Why wouldn't we expect this from a perfect being? Are you defining God according to what you think a perfect being should be? In other words, measuring the truth of God according to your concepts about God?

    Personally, the underlying realities of our existence defy everything we would expect. When you encounter the quantum realm, this system of rules and order are far more chaotic and unpredictable, yet arising out of all that, is the ordered universe. God by definition, transcends our comprehension. Yet, I'm quite sure the issue is the limitations of our minds, not the limitations of Reality.

    God doesn't fit into our ideas about God. We can't take an idea about God and draw a box around the Divine and say, "If God exists, he'd look a lot like what I'd expect". Really? Do you think any of us can say that about God?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  3. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    11,812
    Ratings:
    +7,811
    Religion:
    Love, Light, and Life
    Yes, we are all related to other animals as God created them. Science proves this in the theory of evolution. We have shared DNA and ancestors of common decent. How does that threaten your faith in God, if God made all of this, including evolution?

    A dragonfly has other parts. That doesn't mean it's not an animal like humans are with their own distinct parts.

    Why does that matter, when the issue is weather or not we are all related biologically, being all created by God through evolution? That has nothing to do with the topic of salvation.

    But to answer that question, "all dogs go to heaven", according to many. ;)
     
  4. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2015
    Messages:
    8,124
    Ratings:
    +4,902
    Religion:
    Christian
    So...God creating is a myth to you?
    Why does the Bible call him the “Grand Creator”? (Ecclesiastes 12:1)
     
  5. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    11,812
    Ratings:
    +7,811
    Religion:
    Love, Light, and Life
    God creating is not myth. Stories about God creating are.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2015
    Messages:
    8,124
    Ratings:
    +4,902
    Religion:
    Christian
    In the General Scholium in the Principia, concerning the Solar System, Newton stated, “Though these bodies may indeed continue in their orbits by the mere laws of gravity, yet they could by no means have at first derived the regular position of the orbits themselves by those laws. Thus, this most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.

    (Incorporating God into one of his most famous documents!)

    Regarding Einstein, you might find this interesting, I did. In fact, I downloaded the entire book to my 'ibooks'.
    (Keep in mind, not believing in a "personal" God, does not mean Einstein didn't think God is a higher intellect. It only means he thought God wasn't interested in any person.... Or us, as people.)
    Excerpt from (Barnett, L.,) "The Universe and Dr. Einstein", Victor Gallancz Ltd, London, UK, p. 95, 1953.
    "My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals **Himself** in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a **superior reasoning power**, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God."
    (Capitalization of 'Himself' and 'God' were in the book.
    Double asterisks are mine, to highlight.)


    Life, especially with self-awareness and instinct, is more than the sum of itself; it is combined with all the fine-tuned forces, along with the cycles and systems, that help it flourish. Antony Flew referred to this as "integrated complexity."
     
    #146 Hockeycowboy, Jul 2, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2021
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2015
    Messages:
    8,124
    Ratings:
    +4,902
    Religion:
    Christian
    Then how do you know that “God creating” is itself not a myth?

    What convinces you that it is fact?
     
  8. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2015
    Messages:
    8,124
    Ratings:
    +4,902
    Religion:
    Christian
    “Look” like? No, of course not.
    But from the pages of the Bible, I can tell you what He would “act” like.
     
  9. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    17,286
    Ratings:
    +12,362
    Religion:
    Christian
    There you have it. I stand corrected. Of course, he is expressing an opinion based on no data at all and his own incredulity, but he still does what I asked for.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    11,812
    Ratings:
    +7,811
    Religion:
    Love, Light, and Life
    I don't think of it as a fact. I just accept it is because I feel it. Reason cannot penetrate it. That's why they call it faith.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2021
    Messages:
    1,824
    Ratings:
    +387
    Religion:
    Christian
    I already explained. In archaeology if we find something that appears to be designed we don't suppose it simply evolved itself.
     
  12. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    11,812
    Ratings:
    +7,811
    Religion:
    Love, Light, and Life
    I read the same scriptures as you, but I don't see God as you apparently are. I don't see limitations placed upon him that makes him have to conform to our expectations of what sounds reasonable to us. That it doesn't make sense to you, is a good sign it's probably right. ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2021
    Messages:
    1,824
    Ratings:
    +387
    Religion:
    Christian
    Being similar biologically doesn't prove evolution.
    And it matters because being spiritual beings separates us from animals.
     
  14. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    17,286
    Ratings:
    +12,362
    Religion:
    Christian
    Yes. I know. You never explained how we can take our knowledge of human creations and apply that to nature to show that something there is created too.

    We know that man makes many things. It is so pervasive, it is common knowledge. There is much evidence to support that finding a rope, a brick, a car, a house, jewelry, pottery, weapons, etc. is finding something that is created.

    If we find a Timex on the beach we can know it was created. If we go further down the beach and find a Rolex, are you saying this is evidence of polytheism?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  15. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    17,286
    Ratings:
    +12,362
    Religion:
    Christian
    Nothing proves anything in science. Why wouldn't biological homology be evidence supporting evolution?
     
  16. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2021
    Messages:
    1,824
    Ratings:
    +387
    Religion:
    Christian
    Why would it? You have to suppose evolution is correct first to make that connection.
     
  17. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2021
    Messages:
    1,824
    Ratings:
    +387
    Religion:
    Christian
    Yes I did.
     
  18. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    17,286
    Ratings:
    +12,362
    Religion:
    Christian
    You are the one claiming it isn't and I want to know the basis and support for your claim. You aren't just repeating some dogmatic mantra are you?
     
  19. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    17,286
    Ratings:
    +12,362
    Religion:
    Christian
    Can you point that out or reiterate it?
     
  20. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    17,286
    Ratings:
    +12,362
    Religion:
    Christian
    Why do you have to consider evolution to be correct to draw relationships from biological homology? You don't think there are other possible relationships that this might be demonstrating?
     
Loading...