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- Thread starter Iti oj
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I think the I Ching is Taoist but I am not certain, you might try another translation of the Tao te Ching, as far as I know that is all we have from Lao Tzu, its certainly a book that deserves to be read more than once and translations vary. I think the Tao is the term Lao Tzu uses for the Higher Power or "God" of his understanding, and the book is teaching you how to become aware of and notice the Tao in all things and some stuff about the nature of the Tao.
The religion of Taoism developed later, after Lao Tzu, and that I have not studied so much, although I think it incorporates elements of Shamanism and Buddhism.
The religion of Taoism developed later, after Lao Tzu, and that I have not studied so much, although I think it incorporates elements of Shamanism and Buddhism.
Jumi
Well-Known Member
Zhuangzi is probably the second Taoist text to go for. I've been planning to read it for some years but never got to it.
There's a free translation here:
Zhuangzi - Chinese Text Project
There's a free translation here:
Zhuangzi - Chinese Text Project
After renouncing my parents Christian religion at about 17 years, I was agnostic for some time, several years later, reading the Tao te Ching was one of the pivotal things that moved me back towards Theism, to me God is the Tao, I can not think of a better proof for the existence of God/Tao than the Tao te Ching, In fact to this day, my understanding of God has more to do with the Tao, than the portrayal, quite flawed, of God in the Abrahamic religions.
Personally I dont see Taoism as a theistic path. That's one of its appeals.
Lao Tzu talks of the Tao as a great and pervading force in nature, not as a concept, or thought, or way of thinking, but more like a being or presence, He may not be talking about the God of all, but a Deity, definitely something supernatural, only visible through its influence, not visible itself, forgive me if I'm wrong, its been a while since I've read it, but that's what I remember.
Lao Tzu's description of the Tao sounds a lot to me like what the Buddha describes as the emptiness, I'm tempted to think they are one and the same. The way it is taught the Tao is easier to grasp than the emptiness. Most Buddhists don't seem to have a clue what the emptiness means, they all key on the term empty (invisible??) thinking it means nothing, nothingness. No one would ever make that mistake thinking of the Tao as nothing after reading Lao Tzu!!
Lao Tzu's description of the Tao sounds a lot to me like what the Buddha describes as the emptiness, I'm tempted to think they are one and the same. The way it is taught the Tao is easier to grasp than the emptiness. Most Buddhists don't seem to have a clue what the emptiness means, they all key on the term empty (invisible??) thinking it means nothing, nothingness. No one would ever make that mistake thinking of the Tao as nothing after reading Lao Tzu!!
No the Tao is natural heck the Tao is nature. The Tao isn't a being or like a being. Not in the slightest. Its never described as such.(of course the tao described is not the tao its self.) I highly suggest you reread it because I found none of those things present.
I think the closest theistic stance would be pantheism but more on the sexed up atheism side of the scale. Even then ....
Perhaps other members can weigh in.
So if the Tao WAS a deity or God, you wouldn't consider it natural, how could God not be natural, I cannot remember anywhere In the Tao te Ching where the Tao is described as nature as opposed to acting through nature, perhaps it is the translation, I'm sure the translators preconceptions of just what the Tao is could have a huge effect on the translated meanings presented. Well I'm glad it inspires you, to me God is somewhat pantheistic. But I'm not absolutely sure, I think God is more the invisible universe than the visible, but in the ultimate sense God is the whole universe, at least 99%!!
I never said that you used the word supernatural I was responding to that. Perhaps we should learn chinease?
My principle faith in God/Tao is 60% based on seeing the Tao through nature, I'm often looking at an animal or a plant and being inspired how could that possibly exist by sheer chance without the influence of the God/Tao, to me God/Tao is the spark that gives a trillions of dead cells life to be a living person or animal, without God/Tao there would be nothing, or just atomic units or parts with no organized form, maybe what it was like before the big bang, I don't know.
Iti oj by supernatural I mean not visible, like Ghosts, or spirits, or souls. (or subatomic particles) Not the Higg's boson!!! I don't think that's God.
Iti oj by supernatural I mean not visible, like Ghosts, or spirits, or souls. (or subatomic particles) Not the Higg's boson!!! I don't think that's God.
The Tao does not influence. The Tao does not create. The things you describe are not related Tao or Taoism.
Well as you see under my religion I consider myself a follower of Tao, and the Tao is the Theism I refer to in my religion, I'm not claiming to be highly educated in Chinese Taoism as the later religion, but I do consider myself a Taoist, not a Muslim or a Christian, is that any problem??
Anyway I think I've expressed myself quite clearly for now, so I'll back off and let others comment for a time, thanks for bringing up the topic Iti oj, and seriously just as with Christianity, Islam and Buddhism the translator of the religious text makes a huge difference so I would look for a translation by a Chinese follower of Tao, if such exists.
Anyway I think I've expressed myself quite clearly for now, so I'll back off and let others comment for a time, thanks for bringing up the topic Iti oj, and seriously just as with Christianity, Islam and Buddhism the translator of the religious text makes a huge difference so I would look for a translation by a Chinese follower of Tao, if such exists.
I haven't comment on whether or not I think you are Taoist, just the debating is not allowed here. That's true no matter if you are or are not a Taoist. That's all.
allfoak
Alchemist
If this is something that is unknowable, then i could see the confusion on what to do.
What you want to learn you must learn from yourself.
There are a myriad of ways to do that.
Anything that helps you to learn who you are would be acceptable.
The reason i stress this idea of learning from ourselves is because who else are we going to trust to tell us the truth?