What's in a name?

[Deeje]

I believe that according to Hebrew Scripture there is one name, above all others, so sacred that it must not be pronounced.

Can you show us any scripture that has God commanding that his name was too sacred to be pronounced? Or that you must write “G-d” or “L-rd” as if vowels are somehow the sacred part of even his titles?

This is a man made tradition that has no basis in scripture at all. It is what Jesus called “straining out gnats but gulping down camels”.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Jehovah’s Witness do not support modalism.
Once I read about Tertullian.
Tertullian’s most famous work is Apology, considered to be one of the most powerful literary defenses of nominal Christianity. It was written during a time when Christians were often victims of superstitious mobs.

Tertullian showed that the Scriptures made a clear distinction between the Father and the Son. After quoting 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28, he reasoned: “He who subjected (all things), and He to whom they were subjected—must necessarily be two different Beings.” Tertullian called attention to Jesus’ own words: “The Father is greater than I am.” (John 14:28)

Yes, JW's aren't modalists. Thank you for that correction.

The Father and Son are distincted, yet one/echad/intimately one.

 

[pearl]

This is a man made tradition that has no basis in scripture at all. It is what Jesus called “straining out gnats but gulping down camels”.

So you may present Scripture that repudiates sanctifying His name by not pronouncing it? I understand you have chosen to cut yourself off from your Jewish faith heritage irregardless of Jesus having born a Jew, lived a Jew, and died a Jew. But you certainly do no speak for all Christians. Do we not practice the same honor to the name Jesus; Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The name in Hebrew thought is virtually equivalent to the thing itself. The divine name, then, reflects what God is (with the special aspect of intelligibility to man). Which may be interpreted the basic divine name Yhwh as ‘he who causes to be relates to the creation of the universe and man.

When we turn to sanctity, the other term in our petition, (first in the 'Our Father) we find that only God is holy in Himself.
For the Hebrew mind, all other things are holy only because they have been set aside for worshiping God (e.g., the cultic holiness of the Temple) or because they are connected to God's holiness in a special way. Thus, Israel is holy because God has chosen Israel as His
people; or, as Lv 11:45 puts it, "You are holy because I am holy."
God has engaged His sanctity in the protection of Israel and is thus the
Holy One of Israel (Ps 89:18 and Is passim). By manifesting His power through action in Israel's history, God may be said to sanctify His name or vindicate His holiness.
Now at times Israel proved itself unworthy and profaned God's name. In face of this, God promised
through the prophets that He would renew Israel, giving it a new
spirit, and would thus "vindicate the holiness of His great name" (Ez 36:22-27). Thus, there is good background in Hebrew Scripture for seeing the sanctifying of God's name as a divine action.

In Christian Scripture God manifests His holiness and sanctifies His name
Jesus, who is the Holy One of God (Mk 1:24; Jn 6:69)
who comes in the name of the Lord (Mk 11:9). He was sanctified and sent into the
world (Jn 10:36), and He makes God's name known (Jn 17:26).

The most revealing text in this regard is found at the end of Jesus' public ministry (Jn 12:28). Feeling that His hour is at hand—the culminating hour of return to the Father in passion, death, resurrection, and ascension—Jesus cries out, "Father, glorify your name."

It is the present Catholic position that use of the name “Yahweh” is to be avoided in liturgical settings. The Vatican said that it was respectful of Jewish teaching and sensibilities, and in keeping with Christian tradition “that the sacred Tetragrammaton was never pronounced in the Christian context nor translated into any of the languages into which the Bible was translated.”


When the Hebrew scriptures were first written down — in Greek in the third to the first centuries B.C. — the substitution titles were used. Thus the Hebrew Adonai became the Greek Kyrios. This habit continued when the Gospels were first written — again in Greek. When the Scriptures were translated into Latin in the fifth century, Kyrios became Dominus. In English, we use “Lord.”

The name that must not be said out loud | The Compass (thecompassnews.org)

 

[Deeje]

So you may present Scripture that repudiates sanctifying His name by not pronouncing it? I understand you have chosen to cut yourself off from your Jewish faith heritage irregardless of Jesus having born a Jew, lived a Jew, and died a Jew.

Well, understanding why God chose Israel as his people in the first place is important to appreciate why he had to discipline them so harshly at times. What was his purpose in connection with this nation, and what did his covenants with them mean.....in the short term and long term? What is your understanding?

But you certainly do no speak for all Christians.

I well know that I do not speak for all who call themselves “Christians”......but it has to mean more than wearing a label and attending “church”. It is important in my view, to follow up talk with action....and strict obedience to the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Are we in agreement on that? What do you believe it means to be a “Christian”?

Do we not practice the same honor to the name Jesus; Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

God has one name, but many titles. According to scripture, Jesus has many names that identify his many roles in the service of his God. It would be impossible for God to give Jesus a name higher than his own because only YHWH is “the Most High” (Psalm 83:18) That simple statement is complicated only by religious concepts adopted from outside of God’s word....namely, the trinity.

The name in Hebrew thought is virtually equivalent to the thing itself. The divine name, then, reflects what God is (with the special aspect of intelligibility to man). Which may be interpreted the basic divine name Yhwh as ‘he who causes to be relates to the creation of the universe and man.

We believe that it relates to so much more than a statement of his being, or a reference to him as Creator.....we see it more as a statement of his intentions toward his creation, including man but also involving angelic beings who share existence with us, but who serve our one God in a different realm.

We see it as more like God “being” whatever he needs to be in order for his original purpose to be fulfilled. (Isaiah 55:11) To give his intelligent creatures free will, God also had to have the means to respond to any who might misuse it. It was given as a gift, but abuse could turn it into a curse (as we see happened in Eden, first by a rebel angel and then by the humans he tempted to join him.) It became a curse when the individual or collective will of some was enforced on others, robbing them of their free will. It has created problems for us all through our history.

So it means understanding what God’s first purpose was in putting free willed humans here on this carefully prepared planet.....what went wrong, and why?....and how God gets us back to where we should have been in the beginning. This is the big picture and without it we get lost in the details, having bits and pieces but not really knowing how to fit them together.

God has engaged His sanctity in the protection of Israel and is thus the
Holy One of Israel (Ps 89:18 and Is passim). By manifesting His power through action in Israel's history, God may be said to sanctify His name or vindicate His holiness.
Now at times Israel proved itself unworthy and profaned God's name. In face of this, God promised
through the prophets that He would renew Israel, giving it a new
spirit, and would thus "vindicate the holiness of His great name" (Ez 36:22-27). Thus, there is good background in Hebrew Scripture for seeing the sanctifying of God's name as a divine action.

John the Baptist passed sentence on the Leaders of the Jewish nation....
Matthew 3:7-10
“When he caught sight of many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to the baptism, he said to them: “You offspring of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Therefore, produce fruit that befits repentance. 9 Do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children for Abraham from these stones. 10 The ax is already lying at the root of the trees. Every tree, then, that does not produce fine fruit is to be cut down and thrown into the fire.”

Because of their continued disobedience and refusal to be corrected, even by God’s own son, no repentance was demonstrated, and so the ax fell on those barren trees. (Matthew 23:37-39)

According to the apostle Paul, “Israel” is no longer a fleshly nation. (Romans 2:25-29) Owing to its history of serial offences against the God this nation swore to obey, YHWH had every right to reform his nation, giving his blessing to those who demonstrated in a real way, their determination to obey the teachings of his Christ.

“The Israel of God” was a new spiritual nation.....(Galatians 6:16) made up of both Jews and Gentiles who became followers of Jesus Christ.

In Christian Scripture God manifests His holiness and sanctifies His name
Jesus, who is the Holy One of God (Mk 1:24; Jn 6:69)
who comes in the name of the Lord (Mk 11:9). He was sanctified and sent into the
world (Jn 10:36), and He makes God's name known (Jn 17:26).

The most revealing text in this regard is found at the end of Jesus' public ministry (Jn 12:28). Feeling that His hour is at hand—the culminating hour of return to the Father in passion, death, resurrection, and ascension—Jesus cries out, "Father, glorify your name."

How does God glorify his name by the death of his son? It is one of the major components in the fulfilment of the Bible’s first prophesy in Genesis 3:15.....the heel wound struck by the devil’s seed (painful but not permanent).....to be followed by a fatal head wound for the devil, yet to be inflicted in the future. We humans tend to get lost in the timeframe for all of this.

It has taken thousands of years for the detour we had to take from the events in Eden, to get us here to where we are today....awaiting the return of Jesus to cleanse the earth of everything that the devil has built in this world which he controls. (1 John 5:19)

It will take at least a thousand years more to get us back to square one....it’s a bit overwhelming to contemplate, but easy to see in hindsight. This is why I believe that we need the big picture....to see where we are in the outworking of God’s purpose for us on this Earth. Where do you think this is all going?

It is the present Catholic position that use of the name “Yahweh” is to be avoided in liturgical settings. The Vatican said that it was respectful of Jewish teaching and sensibilities, and in keeping with Christian tradition “that the sacred Tetragrammaton was never pronounced in the Christian context nor translated into any of the languages into which the Bible was translated.”

I do not take my instructions from a church whose history more resembles that of unfaithful Israel than the conduct of the first Christians. Obedience to all the teachings of the Christ is what makes one a Christian. Christendom, particularly Roman Catholicism, does not demonstrate a history of obedience, IMO.

When the Hebrew scriptures were first written down — in Greek in the third to the first centuries B.C. — the substitution titles were used. Thus the Hebrew Adonai became the Greek Kyrios. This habit continued when the Gospels were first written — again in Greek. When the Scriptures were translated into Latin in the fifth century, Kyrios became Dominus. In English, we use “Lord.”

The fact that Christendom’s translators chose to eliminate all mention of the divine name certainly bears no resemblance to the frequency with which “YHWH” was freely mentioned by the Hebrew writers.

The Jews did not have God’s sanction to refuse to use his name audibly. They were so unfaithful in their attitude and conduct that it was easier to forbid uttering the name, than prosecuting the offenders who ‘took God’s name in vain’ or who to brought dishonour to God’s name by their failures.

People tend to want to forgive the Jews for their repeated failures, in the mistaken notion that being a son of Abraham means more than their own disobedience......but I believe that we have to take into account the fact that a covenant is broken when one of the parties fails to uphold their obligation to keep it. Israel did this repeatedly but God never did. He kept that nation in existence until he fulfilled his promise to Abraham....whose seed produced their Messiah for the ‘blessing of all the nations’. God gave members of that nation first option to come into his new covenant, but they didn’t want a bar of him....they still don’t.

Jesus and his apostles led those once “lost sheep” into a new pen with a Shepherd who actually cared about them. The old covenant was replaced by the new covenant and all of the first Christians were Jewish. Those who chose to stay with the old ways are still stuck there....no Messiah, no Temple....no blessings from a God who no longer recognises their nation as separate from the world of political blood spillers. (Isaiah 1:15)

This is not what people want to hear, but I believe it is what the Bible makes clear to us.

 

[pearl]

People tend to want to forgive the Jews for their repeated failures, in the mistaken notion that being a son of Abraham means more than their own disobedience.

Unlike other covenants, the Covenant with Abraham was/is absolute, unconditional, eternal and irrevocable Why does it bother you so much that Jews are 'saved' within their own covenant?

 

[Deeje]

Unlike other covenants, the Covenant with Abraham was/is absolute, unconditional, eternal and irrevocable Why does it bother you so much that Jews are 'saved' within their own covenant?

Jeremiah foretold that a new covenant would replace the old covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-33) and that only those taken into that new covenant would be saved. Israel as a nation, under the influence of their leaders, rejected the mediator of that covenant and orchestrated his murder. (Matthew 23:37)

Individuals from that nation formed the foundation of the kingdom of God by accepting Jesus and leaving the corrupt religion that Judaism had been for a good part of their history (all documented in their scripture). Jesus led them out of there. He condemned the religious leaders and said that what they taught was “leaven” and “the traditions of men”, which he said invalidated the word of God.

The Abrahamic covenant was a perpetual covenant and it is apparent from the words of the apostle Paul that God maintained this covenant by changing what it meant to be a “Jew”. In doing so he adopted “sons of Abraham” (Matthew 3:7-8) by their faith rather than their simply being Jewish by blood.

He wrote at Romans 2:23-29....
“23 You who take pride in law, do you dishonor God by your transgressing of the Law? 24 For “the name of God is being blasphemed among the nations because of you,” just as it is written.

25 Circumcision is, in fact, of benefit only if you practice law; but if you are a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 If, therefore, an uncircumcised person keeps the righteous requirements of the Law, his uncircumcision will be counted as circumcision, will it not? 27 And the physically uncircumcised person will, by carrying out the Law, judge you who are a transgressor of law despite having its written code and circumcision. 28 For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision something on the outside, on the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit and not by a written code. That person’s praise comes from God, not from people.”

This is “spiritual” Israel, “the Israel of God” (Galatians 6:16) ......and this is what forms the basis of our beliefs concerning the fleshly nation not having a part in God’s future plans. Only those who acknowledge Jesus as Messiah will do so. Today’s Jews still hold to their original belief (2,000 years hence) that Jesus was a false Messiah. (Matthew 23:39) What is that telling us....and them?

 

[pearl]

The Abrahamic covenant was a perpetual covenant and it is apparent from the words of the apostle Paul that God maintained this covenant by changing what it meant to be a “Jew”. In doing so he adopted “sons of Abraham” (Matthew 3:7-8) by their faith rather than their simply being Jewish by blood.

Gal 3:15-22
The Law Did Not Nullify the Promise. Brothers, in human terms I say that no one can annul or amend even a human will once ratified. It does not say, “And to descendants,” as referring to many, but as referring to one, “And to your descendant,” who is Christ. does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to cancel the promise. it is no longer from a promise; but God bestowed it on Abraham through a promise.

Why, then, the law? It was added for transgressions, until the descendant came to whom the promise had been made; it was promulgated by angels at the hand of a mediator.
Now there is no mediator when only one party is involved, and God is one.

You are confusing 'law' with promise.

How it is that Jews are saved through their eternal covenant is known only by God, not you, nor me.

 

[metis]

Gal 3:15-22
The Law Did Not Nullify the Promise. Brothers, in human terms I say that no one can annul or amend even a human will once ratified. It does not say, “And to descendants,” as referring to many, but as referring to one, “And to your descendant,” who is Christ. does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to cancel the promise. it is no longer from a promise; but God bestowed it on Abraham through a promise.

Why, then, the law? It was added for transgressions, until the descendant came to whom the promise had been made; it was promulgated by angels at the hand of a mediator.
Now there is no mediator when only one party is involved, and God is one.

You are confusing 'law' with promise.

How it is that Jews are saved through their eternal covenant is known only by God, not you, nor me.

To go along with what you say above, there's this as well:
Deuteronomy 42): "your G-d…shall not add to what I have commanded you or subtract."

Genesis 17:[7] And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you.

Genesis 17:[13] both he that is born in your house and he that is bought with your money, shall be circumcised. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant.

Deuteronomy 7:[9] Know therefore that the LORD your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations,

Deuteronomy 29:[12] that you may enter into the sworn covenant of the LORD your God, which the LORD your God makes with you this day;
[13] that he may establish you this day as his people, and that he may be your God, as he promised you, and as he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.

Psalms 89:[34] I will not violate my covenant,
or alter the word that went forth from my lips.

Psalms 105:[8] He is mindful of his covenant for ever,
of the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations,

Isaiah 44:[21] Remember these things, O Jacob,
and Israel, for you are my servant;
I formed you, you are my servant;
O Israel, you will not be forgotten by me.

Isaiah 45:[17] But Israel is saved by the LORD
with everlasting salvation;
you shall not be put to shame or confounded
to all eternity.

Isaiah 52:[1] Awake, awake,
put on your strength, O Zion;
put on your beautiful garments,
O Jerusalem, the holy city;
for there shall no more come into you
the uncircumcised and the unclean.

Isaiah 59:[20] "And he will come to Zion as Redeemer,
to those in Jacob who turn from transgression, says the LORD.
[21] "And as for me, this is my covenant with them, says the LORD: my spirit which is upon you, and my words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart out of your mouth, or out of the mouth of your children, or out of the mouth of your children's children, says the LORD, from this time forth and for evermore."

Isaiah 66:[22] "For as the new heavens and the new earth
which I will make
shall remain before me, says the LORD;
so shall your descendants and your name remain.


Dt. 13(1): "You shall be careful to observe, neither adding to it or subtracting."

Dt. 13(5): "His commandment you shall observe, holding fast to Him alone."

Dt. 29(28): "Concerns us and our descendents forever, that we may carry out all the words of this Law."

Joshua 1(5): "I will not leave or forsake you…(7) observe the entire Law … do not swerve from it."

Psalms 19(8): "The Law of the Lord is perfect… (10) the ordinances of the Lord are true; all of them are just."

Ps. 119(160): "permanence is Your words chief trait, each of Your just ordinances is everlasting."

Isaiah 42(21): "pleased the Lord in His justice to make His Law great and glorious."

Is. 66(17): "they who eat swine’s flesh … shall all perish."

Baruch 4(1): "the Law endures forever."

 

[pearl]

To go along with what you say above, there's this as well:

And I would add one more;
Gen 15:1-18

 

[Muffled]

And how many times has Jesus, according to Christian Scripture, referred to himself as 'I Am'?

I beieve, once.

 

[Muffled]

Exactly. That’s why “naming God correctly” is a spiritual waste of time.

I believe He names Himself and one of them has no interpretation.

 

[Muffled]

I believe that according to Hebrew Scripture there is one name, above all others, so sacred that it must not be pronounced.

I believe that is pure superstition.

 

[pearl]

I had wished for more input from Jews here as to why only this one name was/is held sacred above other names or titles.

 

[sojourner]

Jehovah’s Witness do not support modalism.
Once I read about Tertullian.
Tertullian’s most famous work is Apology, considered to be one of the most powerful literary defenses of nominal Christianity. It was written during a time when Christians were often victims of superstitious mobs.

Tertullian showed that the Scriptures made a clear distinction between the Father and the Son. After quoting 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28, he reasoned: “He who subjected (all things), and He to whom they were subjected—must necessarily be two different Beings.” Tertullian called attention to Jesus’ own words: “The Father is greater than I am.” (John 14:28)

Well, of course the there’s a clear distinction between Father and Son. The doctrine of the Trinity asserts as much.

 

[Deeje]

Gal 3:15-22
The Law Did Not Nullify the Promise. Brothers, in human terms I say that no one can annul or amend even a human will once ratified. It does not say, “And to descendants,” as referring to many, but as referring to one, “And to your descendant,” who is Christ. does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to cancel the promise. it is no longer from a promise; but God bestowed it on Abraham through a promise.

Genesis 22:16-18....
“By myself I have sworn, says the Lord: Because you have done this, and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will indeed bless you, and I will make your offspring as numerous as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is on the seashore. And your offspring shall possess the gate of their enemies, and by your offspring shall all the nations of the earth gain blessing for themselves, because you have obeyed my voice.” (NRSVCE)

What was the promise? To bless “all the nations of the earth” by means of the seed of that promise....who we know was Jesus Christ. Do the Jews believe that?

But who are Abraham’s “offspring”? The Christian scriptures tell us that God adopted sons to replace those who were “Jews” in the flesh, but who broke their covenant with God and lost his favour.
Jesus himself sentenced them....
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! See, your house is left to you, desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord.’” (Matthew 23:37-39 NRSVCE)

Was it the “city” that killed the prophets that God sent to correct it’s people? Or was it the Jewish leaders who routinely failed the people by alienating them from their God by their adhering to their man-made traditions and by their self-righteous and hypocritical conduct?
Their house was to be left “desolate” forcing God to adopt other sons to take their place.
Acts 15:14....
“Simeon has related how God first looked favorably on the Gentiles, to take from among them a people for his name.”

Since it was always in God’s purpose to bless “all the nations”, God made up the shortfall by accepting Gentiles as his adopted “sons”.....this is “the lsrael of God” (Galatians 6:16)
So in spite of all protests....natural Israel gives no indication of receiving God’s favour, especially when there is unsanctioned blood on their hands, politically allied to nations whose worship they abhor. (Isaiah 1:15)

Why, then, the law? It was added for transgressions, until the descendant came to whom the promise had been made; it was promulgated by angels at the hand of a mediator.
Now there is no mediator when only one party is involved, and God is one.

You are confusing 'law' with promise.

I am confusing nothing.....the Bible is clear about the position of the Jews and John the Baptist was also clear about who can be classified as “sons of Abraham”.

Matthew 3:7-10....
“But when he saw many Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bear fruit worthy of repentance. Do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our ancestor’; for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham. Even now the ax is lying at the root of the trees; every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”

Did these ones repent over their actions? No they did not! And are not likely to after almost 2000 years of solidly denying that Jesus was their Messiah. This leopard has not changed its spots.

How it is that Jews are saved through their eternal covenant is known only by God, not you, nor me.

That is true, but going by what is written in God’s word, we have a fair idea. It was prophesied that only a “remnant” of natural Jews would inherit the promise. (Romans 9:27-29)

Being “Jewish” is not what most people think it is.....the ax fell on those who ‘killed the prophets and stoned those who were sent to it’ .......and their hopes of relying on being “sons of Abraham” to save them, has long been dashed. Unless individuals out of that nation, repent and accept Jesus as the Christ, (like the first Christians did) there is no future for them in God’s Kingdom. The “Israel” who receive God’s blessing are spiritual “Jews”.
This is what the scriptures make clear to me.

And I would add one more;
Gen 15:1-18

“Then the Lord said to Abram, “Know this for certain, that your offspring shall be aliens in a land that is not theirs, and shall be slaves there, and they shall be oppressed for four hundred years; but I will bring judgment on the nation that they serve, and afterward they shall come out with great possessions. On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your descendants I give this land......” (Genesis 15:13-14,18 NRSVCE)

This was the prophesy concerning their time in Egypt.....their becoming slaves, and their liberation after 400 years of oppression....to then take possession of a Land gifted to them by their God.

What happened to their occupation of their land and why?

 

[metis]

I think many if not most theologians today believe that "replacement theology" is not only wrong theologically but also has proven to be historically tragic, leading to rampant anti-Semitism and the persecution of Jews for almost 2000 years.

 

[pearl]

This was the prophesy concerning their time in Egypt.....their becoming slaves, and their liberation after 400 years of oppression....to then take possession of a Land gifted to them by their God.

It was the making of a covenant that may not be revoked.
When the sun had set and it was dark, there appeared a smoking fire pot and a flaming torch, which passed between those pieces. On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying: To your descendants I give this land, from the Wadi of Egypt to the Great River, the Euphrates,i
Gen 15:17-18. Vs 17 deals with the common practice of 'cutting' a covenant among partners. Either God is true to his word, or he is a liar.

 

[Deeje]

It was the making of a covenant that may not be revoked.
When the sun had set and it was dark, there appeared a smoking fire pot and a flaming torch, which passed between those pieces. On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying: To your descendants I give this land, from the Wadi of Egypt to the Great River, the Euphrates,i
Gen 15:17-18. Vs 17 deals with the common practice of 'cutting' a covenant among partners. Either God is true to his word, or he is a liar.

That is true....it was never revoked....but Abraham’s “offspring” failed to fulfill their obligation to God and thereby broke their agreement with him. After producing the promised seed, there was no longer a need to keep that “stiff-necked” people as his own. But God kept his covenant with Abraham in force by changing what it meant to be “Jewish”.....(not to the Jews of course, who will deny it to this day)....but God indicated through his servants like John the Baptist, that ‘God can raise up children for Abraham from the stones’ if necessary.

Did the Jews as a nation have any excuse for all their history of disobedience and poor leadership? Did Jesus have a good thing to say about them? By condemning their leaders, he also condemned those who followed them and obeyed their erroneous teachings.

Jesus roundly condemned that nation, who at that time did not rule over their own land and had not had an Israelite King ruling over them since Zedekiah. The land of Israel was ruled by foreign powers as it had been prophesied by Daniel. Jews were widely scattered outside of their homeland which had been occupied by other nations for centuries. Why?

How long was the Abrahamic covenant to last? Until the “blessings of all the nations” was accomplished, due to the selfless actions of God’s own son. People get hung up on anti-Semitism, believing that any criticism of the Jews constitutes a slandering of God’s people.....but that means that Jesus himself was anti-Semitic. It means that the Bible is anti-Semitic.

As a Christian, and a perpetual Bible student, I am not in any doubt that the nation of Israel today has no place in God’s purpose for the future ‘blessing of all the nations’, unless they turn to Jesus as their Messiah. After almost 2000 years....is that likely? (Matthew 23:39)

Concerning the household of Cornelius as the first Gentile to be accepted into the Christian arrangement....

“So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. As for the word that he sent to Israel, preaching good news of peace through Jesus Christ ( he is Lord of all), you yourselves know what happened throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism that John proclaimed: how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him. And we are witnesses of all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree, but God raised him on the third day and made him to appear, not to all the people but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” (Acts 10:34-43 ESV)

Unless people of any nation believe and accept the one to whom “all the prophets bore witness’, they will not be “acceptable” to the God of Abraham....period.

 

[sojourner]

I think many if not most theologians today believe that "replacement theology" is not only wrong theologically but also has proven to be historically tragic, leading to rampant anti-Semitism and the persecution of Jews for almost 2000 years.

You’re correct. But some cults don’t pay any attention to legit theologians.

 

[pearl]

Did the Jews as a nation have any excuse for all their history of disobedience and poor leadership? Did Jesus have a good thing to say about them? By condemning their leaders, he also condemned those who followed them and obeyed their erroneous teachings.

Jesus' concern was the renewal of his own. “Do not give what is holy to dogs, or throw your pearls before swine." Dogs and swine were Jewish terms of contempt for Gentiles. After reading so many of your anti Semitic posts I am reminded of the jealous son in the parable of the two sons. As if you feel cheated that their Covenant remains salvific for them.