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Featured What would you do

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Epic Beard Man, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    I suspect we don't have a lot of control over our moral feelings. It's mostly non-conscious influences like genetics, culture, upbringing. If there is no deity then religious leaders were influenced their own feelings when it came to morality

    Whatever your morals are, it really comes down to survivability. If you survive and especially if you become affluent, you get to pass on your culture/genetics. Religion has obviously help us to survive these last several thousand years.

    If we move away from religion, whatever morality survives with us will be the morality of the future.
     
  2. Duke_Leto

    Duke_Leto Active Member

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    Is anyone else disturbed by how many religious people claim they would be going out, committing horrible crimes if they lost their faith? If nothing else, the best proof that God exists is that he's making so many sociopaths religious so as to protect the rest of us.

    Anyway, as other atheists have been saying, I don't believe in a god to begin with, so I obviously wouldn't do anything differently.
     
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  3. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Human morality (generally) overrides the urge to be a bank robber or steal from people. Morality came long before the fear of a mythical god beast punishing for not bowing down to said mythical god beast
     
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  4. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    The gods of Hinduism do not judge, reward or punish. Given that I face no judgement, except my own karma, I wouldn't do anything differently.
     
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  5. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    My worldview has no deities, so I would do nothing differently.

    It saddens me that there are people in this world whose moral values are based exclusively on fear of consequence after death and would harm others without batting an eye if there was no fear of judgment.
     
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  6. suncowiam

    suncowiam Well-Known Member

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    What about your peers and their morality? What about your own morality?

    Do we need a big brother looking over our shoulders to tell us what or what not to do?

    If you're going to rob a bank, well fine, but don't blame that on a would be God that supposedly had no control over your life. That was your choice enabled by your morality.
     
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  7. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    No. I was an atheist for decades, it didn't make me into an anarchist. I've always been a helpful person and I've always wanted what's good for a larger group of people. The change between theism and atheism isn't really that big as people make it out to be. In terms of morality we're pretty much all the same.

    I don't think you would do it, you might think now that you would, but I believe your conscience would stop you. Because that's the kind of guy you are.
     
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  8. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    *Looks at her signature*

    If its the abrahamic god, I'd probably have to admit I'd have no sense of self. Without god and serving him, I'm basically ignoring my parent who gave birth and raised me.

    As for being judged, I don't see it that way. Although free will doesn't mean I can go out stealing, god gives me an excellent choice of morals that I feel *it benefits me* to follow. If I don't follow gods morals which are mine, I will not benefit (by definition and default). If thats justifying, no. I cant be moral without god. He is morality.

    If you mean pit fires and hells not all if any denomination believes that literally. It's a analogy and allegory explaining how we would not benefit from following morals. Why there would be such a thing, don't know.


    Unless you are defining Christian teachings by people and not scripture, I'd follow god and without him I'm nothing.

    -

    Devil's advocate aside, I don't use the word god. It implies a highly missed term that us used by Pagans and other religions in general.

    God is life. without it-it-nothing would exist not even me.
     
  9. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    Does belief in order of the universe necessitate moralizing that order?

    I suppose that's something of a rhetorical question. Each can answer that question as they see fit, and it is not something I put stock in, personally. The concept of divine judgement is popular in Western mythologies, combined with its counterpart of divine justice. It is believed that the universe is "ordered" and more importantly, "just" or "fair." It's not a story that managed to stick with me, even when the theological language is stripped out of it. It just doesn't match up with how I experience the world. Things happen - it's mostly the humans who moralize it. Some say that the gods are a reflection of humanity, and in the case of the God of the Bible, that certainly seems to be the case. That their god moralizes and judges reflects the need some humans feel to do likewise... and they want some higher authority to have the ultimate say-so on such matters.
     
  10. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    Surely you'd have something better to do with your time. Something that doesn't involve risking your life.
     
  11. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully you will NEVER stop believing that there's god watching and judging your every action, because clearly you were born with a defective empathy gene. MOST of us act like decent human beings because we can empathize with what other people go through. That means that if I don't like it when people steal from me then I probably shouldn't steal things from other people. If I don't like the idea of being raped then maybe I shouldn't rape other people. This is how most of us live our lives, with absolutely no threat of punishment from god required.

    Perhaps it was people like you that religion was invented for.
     
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  12. Segev Moran

    Segev Moran Well-Known Member

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    That is a very sad thing you are saying.
    The fact the only thing that keeps you from harming others is the deity you believe to exist, makes you an immoral person.
    The fear of god is not the thing that should make you not harm others, rather the understanding that harming others will cause harm to you and those you care for.
    I also really hope you understand that the fact you want to harm others but don't do it, doesn't count as being moral in the eyes of God.
    God's ways are to BE good as a being, not in actions.
    If you are good in your being, you will then be good in your actions.
    If indeed you think harming others is ok if there is no God, you really miss the whole point of God.
     
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  13. FirstandAmistad

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    It's disconcerting to think there are those who only don't murder, rape, and steal because they believe an angry god will punish them for it.

    I have no desire to hurt others because humans have a sense of empathy (probably developed out of and in conjunction with the formation of larger social groups/societies and the need for trust and dependence on others to make such complex social structures function). I can understand through having felt pain that my actions can cause others pain (whether that be physical, emotional, financial, etc.), and I don't want to do that because I know it's unpleasant and that I wouldn't want to experience it myself... so others probably don't want to either.

    Religious teachings can certainly help to instill moral codes in people... but don't make the mistake of thinking they're the only source of morality.
     
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  14. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
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    I'm glad you are a religious person, then. It is unfortunate that you are not actually moral enough not to steal unless you think you are being threatened by a deity.
     
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  15. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    This post is a perfect illustration of why secular humanism is morally superior to religion. The humanist does what is moral because he/she wants to and believes in improving the world. The religious person does what is moral out of fear of punishment from God.
     
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  16. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't you feel bad if someone stole from you? Is that not enough to make you not want to steal from others?

    I believed that growing up without being in a religious family.
     
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  17. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Correct. I think the "psychologically healthy" aspect needs to be emphasized. I'm not a psychologist, but if this post is serious and not satirical, I think it's safe to say the OP is mentally deranged.
     
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  18. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I agree and, as a matter of fact, there are both Jewish and Christian theologians that agree with you, such as Baruch Spinoza and Fr. Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. Today, I would hazard a guess that most Catholic theologians would agree with you, as I do btw.
     
  19. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    I love goodness. Deity or not. I would not want to live in a world without it. That'd be hell.

    The system we live under is a necessity to cause a better way of life.

    Whether you are rich or poor, i dont blame people for being either. Reality isnt fair by nature, why make others a victim of my actions because of what i dont have?

    Even if everyone was bad people, i would die fighting for peace and cooperation.

    Fear of truth, and personal loss keeps most bad people at bay. And what's truth but goodness and what makes it so. And what is goodness but the desire to see others do well.

    There is a lot of good in the world, and good people fight against the forces that would bring peace down.

    I think there is an unwritten law in a civil society, and that is " i must protect whats right and good about society" .

    Thats why America is so powerful in the first place. Equal rights is something everybody would sign up for except those dumb enough to bite the hands that feed them.

    Of course i could look at all the bad that America produces. But i rather look at whats right about it, and what keeps it alive.

    I hope someday, for freedom for all, and the failure of meritocracy, prejudice, and bigotry. My granddad fought against Nazi's, and he was bloody right to do so.

    So that is what i, myself, would do.
     
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  20. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Every time I read your posts and engage with you, in addition to observing your obviously poor reasoning skills and childishly short temper, it has become more and more obvious to me that you lack any amount of empathy and decency. Now my suspicions have been confirmed.
     
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