1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured What would you do

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Epic Beard Man, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,096
    Ratings:
    +3,286
    Religion:
    Agnostic-Monotheist
    If there was no deity (or deities) of a higher plane of existence or no authority to judge your behavior after you die, what would you do? Would you do anything different than what you’re doing now?

    I think for me I’d be a bank robber and steal from people. With so many people on the planet I have nothing divine to fear so why not steal from people? Sure I know right from wrong, but considering there is no moral judgment of face after my mortal life I would rob people.

    If all I have to fear is a prison or dying from disease, or by natural causes I see no point in being a moral person.

    Thoughts?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    148,309
    Ratings:
    +41,408
    Religion:
    Bokononism
    No deities judge me, so I'll continue doing what I do.

    Someone who is moral only because of a supernatural threat is dangerous.
    A crisis of faith could unleash the sociopathic within...crime spree time.
     
    • Winner Winner x 8
    • Like Like x 4
  3. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    5,245
    Ratings:
    +5,365
    Religion:
    None
    It sounds like you've been a theist all of your life. I can't explain to you why people want to be good and kind without the hope of reward or the threat of punishment if you've never lived without such beliefs.

    I choose to be the best person I can be because it pleases me to do so.

    I have no desire to be a bank robber even if I knew that I could get away with it. That's not the person I choose to be.

    I doubt that you would rob banks were you an atheist, either. You seem like a decent guy. I believe that you would be a good person even if you had no god belief.
     
    • Winner Winner x 5
    • Like Like x 4
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
  4. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    28,536
    Ratings:
    +11,972
    Religion:
    Catholic-- liberal & ecumenical
    I definitely believe that the moral teachings put forth by religion can and should have an affect on us overall, but it's not like a washing machine whereas we go in one day a week and come out clean. To me, a great importance of having a religious education and observance is whether it makes one a better person, thus more apt to believe in and act in accordance of the Golden Rule. If not, then all the "Amens!" probably don't amount to a hill of beans.
     
  5. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    19,654
    Ratings:
    +12,610
    Religion:
    Druidry

    I find it interesting that this question assumes that the gods are necessarily judging human behavior for entry into some sort of afterlife. The gods I honor do no such thing, so I'm not sure this question is applicable for me. Nothing would change - my honor and virtue is a distinctly separate affair from the gods. That's not to say there is no relationship between the two at all, but it is definitely not the sort of relationship that is being suggested here.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  6. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    8,735
    Ratings:
    +3,668
    This ^^^^
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    148,309
    Ratings:
    +41,408
    Religion:
    Bokononism
    If someone sees bank robbery as attractive, then one is OK with threatening
    & possibly taking lives when stealing what belongs to others. This speaks to
    personality, empathy & values which are independent of religion.

    I wonder how many people's dark desires are kept in check by religious proscriptions?
    I also wonder about how often evil is done because of religious prescriptions when a
    person would otherwise not commit the crime, eg, honor killings, witch burning?
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 3
  8. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    Messages:
    8,546
    Ratings:
    +7,975
    Religion:
    Pluralist Hindu
    I will do exactly what I do now. Without any non-physical element, my worldview will be like that of secular Buddhism or Epicureanism. They are less rich, but quite sufficient.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,096
    Ratings:
    +3,286
    Religion:
    Agnostic-Monotheist
    You should have known me as a youngster....

    Yeah I grew up in the Baptist community so a lot of the spiritual foundation still resides within me I must admit. So yes there is that healthy fear of doing something that God would disapprove of and therefore I’d be punished.

    I guess for me if I knew I wouldn’t get any recompense for doing bad when I die and considering I have no obligation to no human being other than myself, why should I do good? Sure I do good for the sake of good and because I want to help human beings, but rightness and wrongness are conditions.

    I help people at a hospital because it provides a sustainable income and it also allows me to progress. But I don’t know, if I honestly knew God did not exist and would not judge me cause there would be no one to judge me after I die I may do things differently.

    I mean I wouldn kill people for the sake of killing but I surely would plan out and rob banks. I probably would kill people that disrespected me. I’d probably hit females and males who made me upset. I sound like a Mob boss.
     
  10. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,096
    Ratings:
    +3,286
    Religion:
    Agnostic-Monotheist
    True that and you make a good point. I should have made the disclaimer in the beginning. But let us say that these deities do judge us because how we treat ourselves and let’s say they judge us on how we judge ourselves....But rather these deities do not exist because surely the question is rather geared towards people who believe there is a “order” in the universe.
     
  11. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    11,465
    Ratings:
    +10,913
    Religion:
    Non-theist
    I think the mistake is in thinking you have no obligation to other people. Humans are a social species. We care for others as well as ourselves. At least, psychologically healthy people do, IMHO.

    All I can say is that if you really think you would go rob banks if there was no deity to judge you, then *please* keep believing.

    Those of us who can be moral without fear of judgement will appreciate it.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  12. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    148,309
    Ratings:
    +41,408
    Religion:
    Bokononism
    Nah.
    Religion (IMO) offers no truth....just the opinions of other people.
    (And various religions differ on so many basic values too....which one has The Truth?)
    One might find inspiration in it, but we observe that this isn't always for the better.
    Socializing is has more value.
    And literature offers greater breadth of exposure to ideas than does scripture.
     
    #12 Revoltingest, Sep 19, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. Erebus

    Erebus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2009
    Messages:
    4,811
    Ratings:
    +1,451
    Religion:
    Pagan
    I don't believe in divine judgement. I'm also a moral relativist who holds that good and evil can't be objectively measured or determined. I'm agnostic towards the concept of a spiritual afterlife. Finally, I'm a devout misanthrope and preacher of the holy mantra, "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

    Yet I still don't go out of my way to cause people harm and try to be helpful where I can. Why? Well to be completely honest, I'd find it difficult not to be that way. No matter what intellectual arguments I might make in favour of pure selfishness, I just can't quite do it when push comes to shove. It doesn't bring me joy to cause deliberate harm.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  14. DavidMcCann

    DavidMcCann Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    Messages:
    2,549
    Ratings:
    +1,425
    Religion:
    Hellenic Polytheist
    It's perfectly possible to have a moral system without it being laid down by god(s) and a religion which accepts a naturalistic view of moral law: virtue ethics is the norm for traditional polytheism.
    Virtue Ethics (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    34,964
    Ratings:
    +13,033
    Religion:
    Love
    I know the world is ending but I continue to be reminded of it when we agree on something like now.
     
  16. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    148,309
    Ratings:
    +41,408
    Religion:
    Bokononism
    If you continue this trend, you'll soon be singing the praises of bacon.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  17. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    34,964
    Ratings:
    +13,033
    Religion:
    Love
    You'll be signing the praises of non-bacon.
     
  18. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,096
    Ratings:
    +3,286
    Religion:
    Agnostic-Monotheist
    Lol

    My own mother robbed a bank and got away with it back in the day (she is deceased now) but as a college student those student loans is tough
     
  19. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    22,840
    Ratings:
    +8,470
    Religion:
    Zen Buddhism
    There is still Karma, cause and effect that influences and ripples in incalculable ways. When you think about being born, the environment you were born into, is the karmic result of those who lived before you. I really wish I knew who wrote the saying, paraphrasing of course that in essence , we really don't own ourselves, but rather it's the universe and nature that owns us.

    Things are pretty freaky on its own when you think about it. I'm not of the opinion there is any type of deity around in the popular sense of the word, given there's obviously more to the universe than just dormant matter , experiencing the amazing process of animation by which for all intents and purposes manifest into living matter.

    Even if a person does decide to steal and be an all-around bad guy, . There's really nothing to show for it in an ultimate sense, any more or less than being an all-around good guy.

    Personally just I think life for greater part just happens to be easier and of a higher-quality if decisions are made in terms of cooperation and equanimity rather than forceful means such as that found in a life of crime.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    148,309
    Ratings:
    +41,408
    Religion:
    Bokononism
    Anchovies!
     
Loading...