What would it take?

[technomage]

Here's a question for everybody, regardless of your religious faith or lack thereof.

If I could show you evidence that completely and totally refuted your religion or lack thereof, would you change your mind?

For the atheists: If I could demonstrate conclusive evidence of the existence of at least one Deity, would you consider joining that religion.

Let it be understood: I have NO SUCH EVIDENCE for any religious path that I wish to discuss here. This thread is not about what that supposed evidence would be. It's simply a self-check.

If you found out your beliefs were contrary to facts, would you change your mind?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

To have found my beliefs to be contradictory to fact is to have changed my mind.

The problem is convincing me they are in fact contradictory and in fact fact.

 

[technomage]

To have found my beliefs to be contradictory to fact is to have changed my mind.

But even given that, some people would refuse to change. Ken Ham's recent comment in that silly debate is a classic example.

The problem is convincing me they are in fact contradictory and in fact fact.

I'm sure I have a bigger hammer around here somewhere....

 

[LuisDantas]

For the atheists: If I could demonstrate conclusive evidence of the existence of at least one Deity, would you consider joining that religion.

I would need reason to care about that deity, not just accept its existence.

Is God a fair and wise Guru? Serious question. I would demand an answer before deciding whether to care to worship him.

In fact, existence is a very minor consideration, perhaps not a consideration at all. The wisdom and health of the doctrine are supposed to be decisive instead.

Heck, you might have to give me reason not to actively fight a religion if it turns out that they have a honest-for-real yet unwise or destructive deity.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

But even given that, some people would refuse to change. Ken Ham's recent comment in that silly debate is a classic example.

Ham's nothing but a fool but even he didn't say anything that dumb (I believe). He said nothing would change his mind, but that doesn't necessarily mean he believed something could contradict his views and be factual. His entire "museum" is testament to his ability in apologetics.

 

[technomage]

I would need reason to care about that deity, not just accept its existence.

Is God a fair and wise Guru? Serious question. I would demand an answer before deciding whether to care to worship him.

In fact, existence is a very minor consideration, perhaps not a consideration at all. The wisdom and health of the doctrine are supposed to be decisive instead.

Heck, you might have to give me reason not to actively fight a religion if it turns out that they have a honest-for-real yet unwise or destructive deity.

I can see that. I will note that there are a lot of religions out there with very wise precepts ... as long as those precepts are used with wisdom, and not used to justify hurting each other. No, I don't believe that the deities these religions speak of actually exist, but I can't see trying to "fight" religions that lead people to do good things for each other.

 

[nazz]

Here's a question for everybody, regardless of your religious faith or lack thereof.

If I could show you evidence that completely and totally refuted your religion or lack thereof, would you change your mind?

My religion is Truth. Can you refute truth?

If you found out your beliefs were contrary to facts, would you change your mind?

Sure. I have done so many times.

 

[technomage]

Ham's nothing but a fool but even he didn't say anything that dumb (I believe). He said nothing would change his mind, but that doesn't necessarily mean he believed something could contradict his views and be factual.

Eh, from where I sit, there's no functional difference between the two.

 

[Sees]

I would adopt/adapt but not change religion wholesale. For me the religion is doing, living, expressing and not so much perfect or correct processing and understanding of information. With the way human brains and language work perception of reality and reality itself cannot be a fully synchronized, objective possibility. Religion as focused on truth-claims or access to perfect information is a modern monster that puts people in an endless tail-chase circle.

So it's never meant to be the moon itself just a beautiful, meaningful finger pointing.

 

[technomage]

My religion is Truth.

Yeah, everybody says that. They can't all be right.

 

[LuisDantas]

I can't see trying to "fight" religions that lead people to do good things for each other.

Those aren't the ones that I want to fight.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Here's a question for everybody, regardless of your religious faith or lack thereof.

If I could show you evidence that completely and totally refuted your religion or lack thereof, would you change your mind?

For the atheists: If I could demonstrate conclusive evidence of the existence of at least one Deity, would you consider joining that religion.

Let it be understood: I have NO SUCH EVIDENCE for any religious path that I wish to discuss here. This thread is not about what that supposed evidence would be. It's simply a self-check.

If you found out your beliefs were contrary to facts, would you change your mind?

In respect to myself when I was really deep into general monotheism, before I even joined this forum, I would've declined because I believed that faith was meant to be strong and would be tested in depth, I used to believe that all logic and reason contrary to my beliefs were simply tests no matter how real they seemed.

Modernly I no longer hold this view, and I would definitely be confused. I would probably try to figure out my errors in reason and until I did I would just be stumped but accept the reality as a side.

I do have an experience or two that I cannot explain to myself, sort of contradicting my beliefs, not extremely though. It relates to a ghostly experience that my sister and I shared while I believe ghosts, or at least their appearance in the physical world, is impossible, yet I do happen to know I seen something like a ghost, very supernatural, very strange.

 

[nazz]

Yeah, everybody says that. They can't all be right.

No, you misunderstand. I'm not saying I believe in some religion which I think is the truth. I am saying I only believe in truth and that is my religion. So of course if something is proven to be false it can't be something I can continue believing in.

 

[technomage]

No, you misunderstand. I'm not saying I believe in some religion which I think is the truth. I am saying I only believe in truth and that is my religion. So of course if something is proven to be false it can't be something I can continue believing in.

So in our hypothetical situation above, the only change would be is if I were trying to persuade that something that you thought was truth was actually in error?

:yes: I can respect that.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

No, you misunderstand. I'm not saying I believe in some religion which I think is the truth. I am saying I only believe in truth and that is my religion. So of course if something is proven to be false it can't be something I can continue believing in.

But what if one of these truths come to contradict another?

 

[nazz]

So in our hypothetical situation above, the only change would be is if I were trying to persuade that something that you thought was truth was actually in error?

:yes: I can respect that.

Actually feel free to try to change my mind on anything. I welcome it

 

[nazz]

But what if one of these truths come to contradict another?

That doesn't seem possible

 

[The Sum of Awe]

That doesn't seem possible

What one thinks is true may somehow not be. Not saying you're wrong, but speaking from experience I have had times where I could've swore something was true but later on changed my mind

 

[nazz]

What one thinks is true may somehow not be. Not saying you're wrong, but speaking from experience I have had times where I could've swore something was true but later on changed my mind

Oh, right. Sure. I'm not claiming everything I believe is absolute truth. I could be wrong. But I'm saying if something really is true it can't conflict with something else that is true.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

I would only change my mind if God was proven to be Cthulhu.

Then again, if that happened none of us would have a choice in the matter.