What would falsify your paradigm?

[PruePhillip]

I wonder why Prue Phillip is so besotted about the Jews. He is not one. And Jews have nothing to do with Jesus.
Of course, Not. I am a strong atheist and I do not believe in any God or Goddess. I do not believe in most things that the theists believe in, like soul, heaven, hell, judgment, deliverance, rebirth or even creation. These are "very clearly" mythologies, nice stories, especially for children. Generally people grow out of them, but some don't.

Well, the Judaeo Christian bible has various components.
One of these concerns issues of faith, another of wisdom,
yet another is history.
Only one of these can we "test" with reference to modern
science - the history. And increasingly we find that the
biblical account of the Jews and early Christians holds
true.
It's not fiction like Indian or Greek mythologies. Where
we can test for truth, we find truth.

 

[halbhh]

I will take the words of Hebrew Scholars over Christian ones any day of the week.

Really? That's like me. I definitely think we can gain from the Jewish perspective instead of some poor readers that want to misuse the text for their personal bigotry.

Here's a site I was just seeing last week, and though the information was not new to me, was repeating what I'd already learned --
The Destruction of Sodom

Also, just for interest, if you really want to know what is in the common bible, you'd have to read not much on Gen ch 18-19 (which though interesting don't tell much), but instead the place where the answer is -- Ezekiel chapter 16 -- which is actually such an interesting chapter I recommend the entire chapter. The NIV does quite well in their translation, since they use Jewish Scholars. Now usually I tell people, don't just read 1 chapter, read a book fully. But if you have, it's fine to just try to refresh yourself with the chapter. Ezekiel 16 NIV

Hope you're having a good evening.

 

[Native]

Incorrect. The bible is really no older than around 500 BCE. We have evidence of other, older cultures that are thousands of years older. That proves the bible was plagiarized, pretty much in it's entirety. Nothing is new within it's pages.

I sort of, really don´t care about the historic age of any cultural Story of Creation. The fact is, if you study Comparative Religion or Comparative Mythology and Creation Myths, you´ll soon find significant similarities all over the World.
I agree that the biblical Story of Creation could be somewhat twisted by interpreters, writers and later scholars, but the very basic contents looks very much as in other cultural creation stories.
The genuine biblical content of the Creation Story isn´t plagiarized as such, but it may have got some local Mediterranean mix up from migration exchanges, but initially it just was the Jewish example of the creation story.
As the different local cultures meets each others religious stories, they discovered similarities of "divine beings" which looked very much as their own story.
This is very natural and logic since the global Creation Stories deals with the same creation conditions for all humans all over the world - as I points out in my profile signature below here.

 

[Ayjaydee]

I sort of, really don´t care about the historic age of any cultural Story of Creation. The fact is, if you study Comparative Religion or Comparative Mythology and Creation Myths, you´ll soon find significant similarities all over the World.
I agree that the biblical Story of Creation could be somewhat twisted by interpreters, writers and later scholars, but the very basic contents looks very much as in other cultural creation stories.
The genuine biblical content of the Creation Story isn´t plagiarized as such, but it may have got some local Mediterranean mix up from migration exchanges, but initially it just was the Jewish example of the creation story.
As the different local cultures meets each others religious stories, they discovered similarities of "divine beings" which looked very much as their own story.
This is very natural and logic since the global Creation Stories deals with the same creation conditions for all humans all over the world - as I points out in my profile signature below here.

Excluding the ones with no creation myth

 

[Native]

Shesha (the thousand-fanged king of cobras) and brother to many other Gods (sun included - they were all progeny of Sage Kashyapa, one of the Adams in Hinduism), is a constant companion of Lord Vishnu. In the form of his younger brother, Lakshmana in the Rama story, and as his elder brother, in the Krishna story. Balarama.
Ananta Himalayas: SAGE KASHYAPA

Sure, the Serpent is a cosmological symbol in many cultures. It´s only in the Abrahamic tradition this Serpent is defined to be "evil". The Abrahamic traditions have lost the mythical/cosmological language and symbolism - and the rest have become dualistic dogmas.

 

[Native]

Well, the Judaeo Christian bible has various components.
One of these concerns issues of faith, another of wisdom,
yet another is history.
Only one of these can we "test" with reference to modern
science - the history. And increasingly we find that the
biblical account of the Jews and early Christians holds
true.
It's not fiction like Indian or Greek mythologies. Where
we can test for truth, we find truth.

How do you define the "myth" concept?

 

[Native]

Excluding the ones with no creation myth

Have you done your research in this matter? Tell me which culture doesn´t have a Creation Story.

 

[Ayjaydee]

Well, the Judaeo Christian bible has various components.
One of these concerns issues of faith, another of wisdom,
yet another is history.
Only one of these can we "test" with reference to modern
science - the history. And increasingly we find that the
biblical account of the Jews and early Christians holds
true.
It's not fiction like Indian or Greek mythologies. Where
we can test for truth, we find truth.

Or like Christian mythologies.

 

[Ayjaydee]

Have you done your research in this matter? Tell me which culture doesn´t have a Creation Story.

How finely divided a culture? For instance is the official dogma of a branch of a religion classed as a culture?

 

[Native]

Native said: ↑
Have you done your research in this matter? Tell me which culture doesn´t have a Creation Story.

How finely divided a culture?

I asked you: "Tell me which culture doesn´t have a Creation Story".

When a reply contains a blue highlightet text this indicates a link to the topic.

 

[Ayjaydee]

Native said: ↑
Have you done your research in this matter? Tell me which culture doesn´t have a Creation Story.

I asked you: "Tell me which culture doesn´t have a Creation Story".

When a reply contains a blue highlightet text this indicates a link to the topic.

Yes but I need a defining limit on what you class as a culture

 

[Native]

Native said: ↑
Have you done your research in this matter? Tell me which culture doesn´t have a Creation Story.
I asked you: "Tell me which culture doesn´t have a Creation Story".
When a reply contains a blue highlightet text this indicates a link to the topic.
------------------

Yes but I need a defining limit on what you class as a culture

You are derailing the topic! The topic was NOT about what a culture is or isn´t!

It dealt with how many cultures in the world have a Story of Creation and I provided a link for you in order for you to find out if a culture don´t have a Creation Story and mention it if you find any culture without such a story, as you claims.

Again: Tell me which ancient culture didn´t have a Story of Creation.

 

[Ayjaydee]

Native said: ↑
Have you done your research in this matter? Tell me which culture doesn´t have a Creation Story.
I asked you: "Tell me which culture doesn´t have a Creation Story".
When a reply contains a blue highlightet text this indicates a link to the topic.
------------------

You are derailing the topic! The topic was NOT about what a culture is or isn´t!

It dealt with how many cultures in the world have a Story of Creation and I provided a link for you in order for you to find out if a culture don´t have a Creation Story and mention it if you find any culture without such a story as you claimed.

Again: Tell me which ancient culture didn´t have a Story of Creation.

Okay, then I'm free to define a culture myself and I choose the therevadan Buddhists of south east asia who specifically deny the existance of a creator

 

[dfnj]

Yeah, that is right. Now if an atheist speak about more that her/his actual lack of belief in gods as such, then that the person is an atheist is irrelevant because it is then not about atheism.

E.g. An atheist: I don't like religion
Me: That has nothing to do with you being an atheist as per the definition of atheism.

That is what always happens in practice. An atheist speak of more than the lack of belief and then point out that other atheists are not representative of atheism for other beliefs that the lack of beliefs in gods. No atheist can speak about anything other that the lack of belief, yet a lot of them seem to do that.

I can find threads for you, where an atheist does that and other atheists agree, yet atheists only share a lack of belief in gods

You raise an interesting point. The thing is most atheists are also philosophical materialists. As part of the philosophical materialists dogma they do not believe in a soul, anything divine, anything sacred, nothing supernatural exists by definition. Philosophical materialists are strongly against any form of vitalism. Evolution and the Universe does not have any purpose according to the materialists. Philosophical materialists do not even believe we have consciousness. Even through you and I are having this conversation and reality feels incredibly real it's all just a delusional side-effect of the brain according to the philosophical materialists.

So I think what you are really criticizing is not atheism but the dogma of philosophical materialism. From the atheists perspective, over the last 200 years science has been extremely successful in dispelling silly religious superstitions. Science and scientific methods have shown slitting the throat of a goat as part of a religious ritual does not buy you any favors with God. As part of this success, since it appears God does not participate in the affairs of men as much as people once believed, many atheists will interpolate the belief that every part of religion including the belief in God is a silly superstition.

The thing is and the problem with philosophical materialism when it is scrutinized as a belief system it is built on a set of premises that have been shown not to be true by scientific evidence. Our science has clearly shown we do not live in a clockwork Universe with hard determinism. Whatever the IT is the decides something is being observed in the double slit type experiments in quantum mechanics IT appears to be more spiritual in nature than material. Nature has a funny way of turning out to be stranger than anything we could have ever imagined. It's this non-predictable part of nature that behaves in a very superstitious way I find to be the most fascinating. The scientific evidence supports philosophical Idealism over philosophical materialism which is counter intuitive for most people.

I think most philosophical materialists refuse to accept the non-knowing of nature. They refuse to accept the idea their full understanding of nature will remain inaccurate and incomplete. It is an act of faith on their part to believe their full understanding of nature will ever be accurate and complete. This is no different than having a belief in God or any other dogma.

I think one of my biggest dislikes in people who are philosophical materialists is the idea people are just mindless automatons implying there is nothing sacred about human life. Although I have heard many philosophical materialist claim they are just as moral as theists, I find it hard to believe based on their way of thinking what would be the basis for choosing to be a moral person. A lot science goes into creating weapons of war. Even though the philosophical materialists never accept any responsibility for their actions I believe there has to be some accountability when it comes to creating so much death and potential for death with science.

 

[Native]

Native said: ↑
Have you done your research in this matter? Tell me which culture doesn´t have a Creation Story.
I asked you: "Tell me which culture doesn´t have a Creation Story".
When a reply contains a blue highlightet text this indicates a link to the topic.
------------------
You are derailing the topic! The topic was NOT about what a culture is or isn´t!

It dealt with how many cultures in the world have a Story of Creation and I provided a link for you in order for you to find out if a culture don´t have a Creation Story and mention it if you find any culture without such a story as you claimed.

Again: Tell me which ancient culture didn´t have a Story of Creation.
-------------

Okay, then I'm free to define a culture myself and I choose the therevadan Buddhists of south east asia who specifically deny the existance of a creator

Again you´re derailing the very topic which wasn´t/isn´t about defining what cosmic sources or forces are at the play in the Creation Stories.

Of course Buddhists also have their Story of Creation

 

[Ayjaydee]

Native said: ↑
Native said: ↑
Have you done your research in this matter? Tell me which culture doesn´t have a Creation Story.
I asked you: "Tell me which culture doesn´t have a Creation Story".
When a reply contains a blue highlightet text this indicates a link to the topic.
------------------
You are derailing the topic! The topic was NOT about what a culture is or isn´t!

It dealt with how many cultures in the world have a Story of Creation and I provided a link for you in order for you to find out if a culture don´t have a Creation Story and mention it if you find any culture without such a story as you claimed.

Again: Tell me which ancient culture didn´t have a Story of Creation.
-------------

Again you´re derailing the very topic which wasn´t/isn´t about defining what cosmic sources or forces are at the play in the Creation Stories.

Of course Buddhists also have their Story of Creation

Most therevada does not accept the concept of a creator. Sorry

 

[Native]

Most therevada does not accept the concept of a creator. Sorry

You´ve already made this disconnected statement.

And again you´re derailing the very topic which wasn´t/isn´t about defining what cosmic sources or forces are at the play in the Creation Stories.

Of course Buddhists cultures also have their Story of Creation. Read this link and understand it, please.

 

[Ayjaydee]

You´ve already made this disconnected statement.

And again you´re derailing the very topic which wasn´t/isn´t about defining what cosmic sources or forces are at the play in the Creation Stories.

Of course Buddhists cultures also have their Story of Creation. Read this link and understand it, please.

Lol, I did and it offers no quotes to your claim
On the other hand I can provide many sources to back mine. Therevada buddhism has no belief in a creator

 

[Ayjaydee]

You´ve already made this disconnected statement.

And again you´re derailing the very topic which wasn´t/isn´t about defining what cosmic sources or forces are at the play in the Creation Stories.

Of course Buddhists cultures also have their Story of Creation. Read this link and understand it, please.

The Buddhist Attitude to God

 

[Ayjaydee]

You´ve already made this disconnected statement.

And again you´re derailing the very topic which wasn´t/isn´t about defining what cosmic sources or forces are at the play in the Creation Stories.

Of course Buddhists cultures also have their Story of Creation. Read this link and understand it, please.

Creator in Buddhism - Wikipedia the therevadan universe is cyclic with no beginning and no end