1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured What would a Muslim do?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Raymann, Oct 16, 2019.

  1. Raymann

    Raymann Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    214
    Ratings:
    +106
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    This is the scenario:
    You get home and find your wife having sex with another man.
    You are the only witness.


    This would be a case of adultery according to Islam. A man and a woman having sex outside of marriage.
    The problem is that following strict Islamic rules adultery is very difficult to prove.
    You need four men witnesses of upright character (sinless)
    Those witnesses have to actually see the penetration before making any accusation.
    Those who make accusations without the required conditions are actually penalized for it.

    How does this accomplish justice?
    What would a husband do in this situation?
    What would any Muslim do in this situation?
     
  2. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4,601
    Ratings:
    +4,102
    Religion:
    Spiritual but not religious
    A (non-Muslim) husband who was not into polygamy would divorce his wife, and that is the only justice that is acceptable. I hope you’re not implying anything else (such as death) would be just with your question.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    10,684
    Ratings:
    +6,107
    Religion:
    spiritual anti-theist : )
    Beat her gently with a feather?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  4. Guitar's Cry

    Guitar's Cry Verisimilitudinous

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Messages:
    13,209
    Ratings:
    +2,753
    Religion:
    Panreligious mystical paganism
    Non-Muslim, but I would excuse myself, make them some sandwiches, and have a coffee while I wait to congratulate them. :p
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  5. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    56,896
    Ratings:
    +26,027
    Religion:
    Love
    This question has been answered Will you give information about Lian: the method of ending a marriage due to adultery? | Questions on Islam

    As a matter of fact, when Hilal b. Umayya (may Allah be pleased with him) accused his wife of adultery, the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) asked him to prove it with four witnesses and said that the punishment of slandering (qazf) would be applied if he could not prove it. He repeated it several times. Hilal b. Umayya said, "O Messenger of Allah! One of us sees his wife committing adultery with a man; you ask us for evidence. I swear by Allah, who sent you as a true prophet, that I am telling the truth. I believe that Allah will send down a verse to you that will save my back from these stripes." (Bukhari, Shahadat, 21, Tafsir Surah 24/3, Talaq, 28; Muslim, Lian, II; Abu Dawud, Talaq, 27; Ahmad b. Hanbal, Musnad, I, 273, III, 142). Thereupon, the following ‘verse of mulaana’ was sent down.

    "And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own― their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth; And the fifth (oath) (should be) that they solemnly invoke the curse of Allah on themselves if they tell a lie. But it would avert the punishment from the wife, if she bears witness four times (with an oath) by Allah, that (her husband) is telling a lie; And the fifth (oath) should be that she solemnly invokes the wrath of Allah on herself if (her accuser) is telling the truth. " (an-Nur, 24/6-9).

    The first application of the verse was used for the family of Hilal. Hazrat Prophet summoned Bilal. Bilal swore by Allah four times that he was telling the truth; he wanted the curse of Allah to be on him if he lied. Then his wife was brought there. She swore the same way. She wanted the curse of Allah to become on her if her husband told the truth. Then, the Messenger of Allah divorced them.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  6. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,688
    Ratings:
    +3,563
    Religion:
    Agnostic-Monotheist
    This is stupid all around because the heading suggests what would a Muslim do in instance of infidelity which you would imply violence...I mean what would any man do?

    Infidelity hurts any persons who loves.
     
    #6 Epic Beard Man, Oct 16, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 17, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 4
  7. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    14,637
    Ratings:
    +9,655
    Religion:
    Osmanli Nakshibedi Way, Sufism
    It is sad to see that one person can spread so much hate toward Muslims in general, Infidelity happens in every society of the world, Not only in Muslim homes. So, to time and time again single out the Muslim community starting to become bullying of one single group of people, with a certain belief. And this forum should be a place everyone could feel safe and happy. But sometimes one wonders if it is worth even opening threads like this one because one knows that it will be hate spread here.

    Sometimes the few can destroy for the many. It is shameful to keep on bully people.
    (sorry for my rant)
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Advaita Vedantin
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    12,739
    Ratings:
    +19,341
    Religion:
    Sanatana Dharma
    What's my motivation here?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. Earthtank

    Earthtank Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2019
    Messages:
    789
    Ratings:
    +265
    Religion:
    Deist
    He (Muslim) or any respectable man would do is divorce her and move on. Don't waste time. Honestly, OP is a dumb question.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  10. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Advaita Vedantin
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    12,739
    Ratings:
    +19,341
    Religion:
    Sanatana Dharma
    And yet you took the time to respond to it. :shrug:
     
  11. Raymann

    Raymann Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    214
    Ratings:
    +106
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    Wrong. I am not trolling Muslims I am trying to understand the logic behind Allah's rules on adultery.
    It seems to me that justice is never accomplished by following Allah's rules.
    The wife, in this case, committed "adultery" and Allah established penalties for this kind of crime. The husband by following Allah's rules all he can do is either divorce her or punish her or whatever but he could never do what he should do and that is accuse her of adultery.
    It doesn't make any sense.
     
  12. Debater Slayer

    Debater Slayer Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    20,019
    Ratings:
    +13,159
    Given that the Islamic punishment for adultery is either stoning or lashing (depending on the most mainstream interpretations of the Qur'an and hadith), I'm actually glad the Islamic requirements for witnesses would make the punishment harder to mete out. Since I believe the two punishments I mentioned are unjust and inhumane, I don't see how more lenient requirements to carry them out would aid justice at all.

    It depends on the husband in question. We're talking about billions of men, so there's no way to give a blanket answer and remain accurate.

    It depends on the Muslim in question, since we're also talking about nearly a billion men in this case.

    The OP seems hastily or poorly thought out, not to mention simplistic and one-dimensional. Certainly not the best way to approach a thorny subject like marital infidelity.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Raymann

    Raymann Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    214
    Ratings:
    +106
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    You totally missed the point.
    It is not hate against Muslims it is a question on a possible case that doesn't make sense under Allah's rules.
    As an agnostic in search of the real God can I question Allah as being the real God?
    Can a Muslim ask an Imam if something doesn't make sense?
    Is it allowed in Islam to question the scriptures?
    Can we use our intelligence to determine something doesn't make sense?

    The question was not to criticize infidelity in the Muslim world but to criticize the rules on adultery.
    They don't make sense to me and they were created by Allah.
     
  14. Raymann

    Raymann Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    214
    Ratings:
    +106
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    My only point was to find out how Muslims deal with such odd rules.

    Allah's punishment for adultery seem very harsh to me.
    Death by stoning or 100 lashes are also very disproportioned.
    Then, on the other hand, we have the requirement of 4 witnesses, etc.
    The punishment is too harsh but the rules are impossible to follow.
    It just doesn't make sense to me.
     
  15. Earthtank

    Earthtank Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2019
    Messages:
    789
    Ratings:
    +265
    Religion:
    Deist
    No, you are not. The person that said you are trolling was right.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Caritas Christi Urget Nos
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    33,060
    Ratings:
    +18,260
    Religion:
    Christian
    Yeah, but wanting them to die would be perfectly understandable.
     
  17. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    14,637
    Ratings:
    +9,655
    Religion:
    Osmanli Nakshibedi Way, Sufism
    If you were interested in finding the truth within Islam, you would not have a constant negative view on their religion or teaching. In none of the OP you have starter is there sign of you being curious to find truth. It has been only seen from a negative P.O.V.

    When did you ask the muslims in this forum for advice to understand the Qu'ran is Hadith?
    Every time you open a New OP about Islam or Muslims it has been seen as an attack on Allah or the teaching.

    If you want to learn, maybe ask questions that can be given an answer to that you can learn from instead of making harsh critique of something you clearly do not understand.
     
  18. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    4,649
    Ratings:
    +885
    Religion:
    Christian
    Perhaps such a broken marriage should separate or perhaps the wife repent and husband forgive?
    After all the prophet Hosea was called to marry an unfaithful wife and their marriage was somehow healed and reconciled.
     
    #18 whirlingmerc, Oct 16, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Raymann

    Raymann Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    214
    Ratings:
    +106
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    That is exactly what I did.
    I just asked questions on what to me is odd and makes no sense.
    I just asked what Muslims do when a woman is known to have committed adultery?

    If I was a Muslim this would have been the answer to my question:
    I would not have accused my wife of adultery because Allah's rules expect me to produce at least 4 witnesses of upright character, etc, etc.
    The problem is that I saw my wife committing adultery so how can I say justice was done?
    I know the truth but Allah's rules don't allow me to tell it.
    Does Allah expect me to follow the rules even when I know they don't do justice?

    How do Muslims deal with this?
     
  20. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,688
    Ratings:
    +3,563
    Religion:
    Agnostic-Monotheist
    Why couldn't you just google it?

    You are not following Allah's rules if you're committing infidelity. Also considering that marriage is sacred in Islam (because marriage is considered one half of a Muslim's religion), it is taken very seriously.

    “When a person commits adultery he casts away from his neck the bond that ties him to Islam; if, however, he repents, Allah will accept his repentance” (Al-Bukhari, Muslim, AbuDawud, An-Nisa’i and others).

    You said:

    "but he could never do what he should do and that is accuse her of adultery."

    Sure he can because there are three witnesses there. The wife in question, the husband, and the one committing the act of adultery with the married woman. However considering the legality of the issue rulings on Zina varies depending on the interpretation and where geographically. The Qur'an clearly mandates punishment for false accusation of adultery. However, given the scenario it would depend on the person.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
Loading...