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Featured What will the Second Coming of Christ look like?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by loverofhumanity, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Whenever a messenger of God appears in the world, that time becomes a “Day of Judgment,” in the sense that humanity is faced with the test of either accepting or rejecting that new messenger and his message. By the same token, the new prophet of God abrogates old laws and brings new teachings, which are also a form of “judgment,” establishing a new era in human society. In other words, old concepts and practices are judged to be outdated and are replaced with new ones more suited to the new level of human development.

    No individual Baha’i has been given any authority in the Baha’i Faith except Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi Who have passed away. We have as our only authority elected bodies not individuals.


    Future kings Baha’i or not have not been invested by Baha’u’llah with any authority to govern or guide the Baha’i World Community.
     
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  2. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Hi CG. Missed you. Recognising a Manifestation of God doesn’t require rocket science.
    Christ put it bluntly and simply when He said ‘Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God’. By ‘seeing God’ we believe is to recognise His Manifestation.

    Regardless of theological interpretations it was not the scriptural learned who recognised Christ when He first appeared but illiterate uneducated fishermen!

    Despite prophetic calculations and interpretations it will still require a pure heart to recognise His return. The Pharisees and Sadducees twisted prophesies in order to enable them to deny Christ - example ‘what good comes out of Bethlehem’. And it’s the same today I believe where despite the teachings of Baha’u’llah, the oneness of mankind which are relative to this age’s needs, some, to maintain their control over their followers will make up and twist whatever they can like the high priests to suit their own agenda.

    Does the world need an end to racial, religious and national,prejudices? Does the world need the oneness and equality of humanity to be accepted? Do we need world peace?

    The problem is these religions have had their chance but failed to unite humanity. World wars 1 and 2 and umpteen dozen other wars proved that despite outwardly existing, they were all impotent to forestall humanity’s greatest catastrophes. They can’t even unite themselves. These are facts not criticisms. Christianity how can it bring world peace when it is a house divided? The Baha’i World Community on the other hand is forging ahead building the kingdom of God not bogged down with theological disputes amomgst themselves. We have education programs for children, youth and adults to teach love for all humanity not just the Baha’i Faith or Baha’u’llah. Which religion today reads from all the Holy Books of all the major religions in their churches, mosques, synagogues or temples each week or has engraved the symbols of all these Faiths on their doors and windows?

    Which religion teaches their children and youth to accept all the major religions? By Christians saying Christ is the only one and Muslims that no other prophet is to ever appear in which way are they building bridges? Christians have fought in many religious wars against fellow Christians and Muslims and the list goes on.


    All people, I believe understand the need for Baha’u’llah’s teachings in this age. They don’t want to accept Baha’u’llah but His teachings, the entire world is undeniably gravitating towards if one is fully acquainted with them.


    I believe it is plain selfish to place interpretations of texts above the needs of humanity which is crying out for peace and unity. The texts of the world religions CAN be interpreted in a manner which unites them yet leaders CHOOSE the interpretations which divide and maintain the ‘us and them ‘ paradigm, simply because they have vested personal interests at heart and not the peace and well being of humanity.
     
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  3. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Tony covered that quite adequately... All power is with God and His Messengers.

    Do you have any scriptures that say that the Messiah will sit on a seat of power and rule from Jerusalem, since that is where David's throne was located? I cannot go with your personal opinions, I need scriptures that I can read for myself. I did an ardent online search and I found no verses that say that the Messiah will rule from Jerusalem, since that is where David's throne was located.

    According to Baha'i scriptures, all power resides with God and His Messengers, as Tony said. The Messenger reveals the Law of God which has the power to change the world if people follow it.

    “The promises of God, as recorded in the holy Scriptures, have all been fulfilled. Out of Zion hath gone forth the Law of God, and Jerusalem, and the hills and land thereof, are filled with the glory of His Revelation.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 12-13
     
  4. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Can you pass this on as I’m too busy to find the OP?

    jeremiah 49:38

    I will set my throne in ELAM (Persia’s/Iran) and from there destroy the wicked kings and princes

    verify the exact words but God’s Throne, which is none other than His Manifestation is to come from Persia, current day Iran which is where Baha’u’llah was born.
     
  5. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I certainly will.... and thanks for that verse. :D
     
  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    @ loverofhumanity asked me to pass this along because he was too busy to find the OP:

    jeremiah 49:38
    I will set my throne in ELAM (Persia’s/Iran) and from there destroy the wicked kings and scriptures.

    verify the exact words but God’s Throne, which is none other than His Manifestation is to come from Persia, current day Iran which is where Baha’u’llah was born.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I then remembered having read about Elam in the book entitled Thief in the Night. The clear proof that Baha’u’llah was foretold in the Bible is in this book. Here is a subsection which addresses where the Messiah will come from.

    18. Lightning from the East

    I now began an earnest search for clues that would tell me something about the place in which the Messiah would appear. Two interesting things came to light. For the first coming, Daniel had given the time and Micah had given the place. Daniel had prophesied exactly when the Messiah would appear the first time and when He would be slain. Micah had said of the place: “But thou, Bethlehem … out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel.”(Micah 5:2)

    Daniel had also prophesied with even greater exactness the time of the second coming of the Messiah in 1844 (see p. 20). Therefore, I turned to Micah for a possible clue as to the place of His second appearance. I was richly rewarded. In Micah 7:7 and 12 I found:

    “I will wait for the God of my salvation … In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria …”(Micah 7:7, 12)

    The Assyrian Empire at one time covered the entire area in which both Daniel and Micah lived out their lives. Therefore, I chose to study those parts of the Empire, in which these two prophets traditionally lived and taught. To my surprise, I found that there were many other clues to follow as well. Gradually one led to another, until a definite picture began to emerge, and I knew at least in which direction to turn my gaze.

    The book of Ezekiel spoke of a great Figure who would come in those days. He said: “And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east.” (Ezekiel 43:2)

    This was clearly a reference to the second coming of Christ and not the first, for Jesus did not come from the way of the East, He came from north and west of Jerusalem. Isaiah in like manner spoke of the wondrous Figure who would come from the East. Isaiah said that it was God Himself Who had“… raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings.”(Isaiah 41:2) Even Christ Himself pointed to the direction from which He would appear in the day of His second coming. Speaking of that day, He said: “For as the lightning cometh out of the East … so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”(Matthew 24:27)

    The Jewish Oracles, the Sibylline books, prophesied that the ‘King Messiah’ of the time of the end would come ‘from the sunrise’.(The Messianic Idea in Israel, J. G. Klausner, 1956, p. 376). Daniel had written his words of millennial prophecy while in the East. In fact, he was in Elam, a part of ancient Persia, when he foretold with such startling accuracy the exact time of both the first and the second comings of Christ. It was in the capital city of Persia, Shúshán, (Ancient Susa, Khúzistán, south-west Írán) that Daniel had the prophetic vision that revealed the year 1844 as the time for the return of the Messiah. Daniel not only gave the time 1844, but he also directed attention to the place, saying that ‘Elam’ (Persia) would be given as a place of ‘vision’ in the latter days (Daniel 8:2). The Prophet Jeremiah speaks of things that ‘shall come to pass in the latter days’ and in the verse preceding this, he says: “And I will set my throne in Elam (Persia) … saith the Lord.”(Jeremiah 49:38). I came across a prophecy well known among the Arabs. Speaking of the time of the end, it said:“When the promised One appears, the ‘upholders of His faith shall be the people of Persia.’”(The Dawn-breakers, Nabíl, p. 49).All these prophecies clearly showed that the Messiah would come from the East, and they put a strong emphasis on the territory of Persia. It was something definite to go on. The circle was narrowing.

    From: William Sears, Thief in the Night, pp. 73-75

    Daniel 8:2 And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.

    Isaiah 41:2 Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow.

    Jeremiah 49:38 And I will set my throne in Elam, and will destroy from thence the king and the princes, saith the Lord.


    It appears as if the Throne was set in Elam, not in Jerusalem.
     
  7. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    I am so impressed with the tone of your posts. You are showing what a great Baha'i should be doing. Kind, respectful and in this post... zero quotes. Shorts quotes to back up a statement I would think most of us could tolerate. But the long quotes are difficult to handle.

    Racial and national prejudices are on the way out. Religion is going to be more difficult. The mess the world is in right now fits perfectly into Christianity. They are in fact expecting things to get worse before the second coming. Baha'is say the second coming has happened, and that people need to recognize that it has and get on board with implementing the teachings of Baha'u'llah, the "Divine" physician. But Baha'is are expecting things to get worse also, because the leaders of the world rejected the Baha'i message.

    The reality I see is that most all of us are living day to day with our jobs and families and are not going to commit to changing the world. Some are working for change. But it is in specific areas like gender equality and the environment. Oh, and the thing with gun control here in the U.S. The High School kids did their best to tell the leaders of the country that enough is enough... it is time to make changes. Then, after a short time, the story is out of the news and everything goes on with no changes... until the next mass shooting.

    So I don't think any major change will happen until things fall apart. Then, if a world leader arises and makes everyone take a mark on their hand or forehead... then I would think that the Christians are right and I'd take a closer look at the Book of Revelation. Now, if the world falls apart and everyone turns to the Baha'is for leadership, that's fine. And I hope people like you will be there promoting peace and harmony amongst all people no matter what race or religion.
     
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  8. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Every one will see Him. That's how you can avoid many false messiah pretenders. They will say "he is the secret chamber" or he is in the desert; but He isn't there. (Matthew 24:26)

    But they'll also probably fake the second coming for gullible people. Research project blue beam. Which is old hat tech at this point. So they have really advanced technology that can create appearances in the sky.
     
  9. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Lets have a look at the rest of the scriptures missed:

    Matthew 24:27 For as the "lightning flashes" from the east, and is seen even to the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man...

    This used the same wording "lightning flashing", and then "vultures gathering", as we also find between Luke 17:24-37; which means contextually Matthew 24:36-50 is between these.

    Matthew 24:28 For wherever the carcass is, that is where the "vultures gather together".

    In other words the Son of Man is here as a Thief before Armageddon (Revelation 16:15-16), arguing with the churches with the words of his mouth (Revelation 3:3), and giving out free correction to those who listen (Revelation 3:18).

    In Matthew 25:1-13 when Christ comes at the Midnight Hour is to see who is worthy.

    In the Quran, Christians and Zionist already rejected the Messiah (Quran 43:56-59), and in the 2nd coming even though the Messiah returns with clear signs, to then correct the errors (Quran 43:60-77), people have already rejected it, and then the End comes.

    Think the key point in learning what the Parable of a Fig meant (Matthew 24:32-35, Mark 13:28-31, Luke 21:29-33) is that in Isaiah 28:4-9 is the start of the 2nd coming, where the Snare that was establish in Isaiah 8:11-22 is then Closed.

    The Messiah comes back to explain the Bed of Adultery (Revelation 2:22) in Isaiah 28:9-19 are the Bed Posts (Rumour to Rumour - Ezekiel 7:26), with Isaiah 28:20-21 stating it is the Bed of Adultery in Hebrew.

    Since it takes a genius (Inspired by God within) to understand any of this, most people will mock it (Isaiah 28:22); not realizing the Messiah's 2nd coming, is as the Final Warning before a whole New Reality.

    The whole reality gets formatted in a Day, to remove the Rephaim (Isaiah 17:4-6, Isaiah 26:19); only the Enlightened Saints get resurrected after the Holy Quantum Fire.

    The Tares are removed by Fire at the Harvest, and then the Angels remain - May the Source Bless all with Wisdom, and Unconditional Love.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  10. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    You are destroying the meaning of words. You can't just redefine stuff to mean whatever you want. Words do have meanings.
     
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  11. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    As I said to Tony, you can't just go redefining the meanings of words willy nilly. The word throne has a meaning. And its not what you are using above.
     
  12. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Is this talking about David's throne? No.
     
  13. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Veteran Member
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    Who knows better the means than the God that gave them.

    That is the quandary of the OP - If God is in all the Messengers, then a person may have to consider they have rejected a lot of what God offered those Words did mean.

    Regards Tony
     
  14. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    You still have not answered my question: Do you have any scriptures that say that the Messiah will sit on a seat of power (throne) and rule from Jerusalem, since that is where David's throne was located?

    Throne has more than one meaning, but when it refers to God - or anyone who is working for God - it does not refer to an earthly throne on which an earthly king would sit...

    The Throne of God is the reigning centre of God in the Abrahamic religions: primarily Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. The throne is said by various holy books to reside beyond the Seventh Heaven and is called Araboth in Judaism, and al-'Arsh in Islam.
    https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Throne_of_God
     
  15. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No, because David does not have a throne anymore. Only Jesus and Baha’u’llah have ruled on a throne, figuratively speaking of course.

    You still have not answered my question: Do you have any scriptures that say that the Messiah rule on David’s throne and rule from Jerusalem? I cannot go with your personal opinions, I need scriptures that I can read for myself. I did an ardent online search and I found no verses that say that the Messiah will rule from Jerusalem, since that is where David's throne was located.
     
  16. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    People that speak Hebrew know what Hebrew words mean, and people that speak English know what English words mean. No God is necessary to elaborate on what throne means. Again, what you are doing is changing the meaning of the word to suit your theology. It's trickery.
     
  17. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Oh, I've answered your question. Fully.

    And again, we are not talking about the throne of God. We are talking about the throne of David.
     
  18. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    These are specific places it says David is the Messiah, and there are multiple places it states the Messiah shall rule from Jerusalem.

    Ezekiel 34:23-24, Ezekiel 37:24-25, Jeremiah 23:5, Jeremiah 30:8-9, Jeremiah 33:15, Hosea 3:5, Isaiah 55:3, Isaiah 22:22, Isaiah 9:6-7, Revelation 5:5, etc.

    David prophesied two names for himself in the Psalms: him self suffering as a servant of God as Yeshua in Psalms 116:13, and in Psalms 102:21 David returns as King Zion before the End of Time.

    We can see 'Yeshua' (Salvation) is Strongs reference number H3444; where with study, we can see cryptically that Isaiah 52:10-14 is David coming as High Priest - who is put to death, with the symbolic name of the Branch 'Yehoshua'.

    In Isaiah 52:1-9 the returning triumphant King Zion reigns from Jerusalem; this is after the wicked are cleansed from the Land.

    Isaiah 24:23 states when the spirit of God its self comes here at Judgement Day, where it shall reign in Jerusalem removing the idolatry.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #558 wizanda, Dec 18, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
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  19. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Veteran Member
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    The word does not have to change, how one may see God sits on a throne may have to.

    In this age Baha'u'llah Message was the Temple. The Throne of that temple the Body of Baha'u'llah.

    Many are the meanings of Throne and Temple.

    One quote from the Bab. "As this physical frame is the throne of the inner temple, whatever occurs to the former is felt by the latter. In reality that which takes delight in joy or is saddened by pain is the inner temple of the body, not the body itself. Since this physical body is the throne whereon the inner temple is established..... "

    Regards Tony
     
  20. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    For the gazillionth time, the subject is David's throne, not God's throne.
     
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