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Featured What will the Second Coming of Christ look like?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by loverofhumanity, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    I'm getting frustrated because I'm repeating myself. I'm repeating myself because you are not responding to my point. My point is that a mere 30% of us Jews simply doesn't come close to being "the scattered people of Judah." If you think it does, there can be no meeting of minds between us. For to me this is simply face value obvious. It just leaves way to many of the scattered, scattered. Like 70% of us.


    I've given a couple before. I guess it was just too far back to be remembered. Here are a couple:

    Jeremiah 30:9 Instead, they will serve the Lord their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them.

    Ezekiel 34:23-24
    I will place over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd. The Lord will be their God, and my servant David will be prince among them. I the Lord have spoken.

    We too believe that eventually there will be just one religion, but its obligation will be different depending on whether one is Jew or Gentile. This is because Jews are a priestly people, and therefore have more obligations. It is not necessary for non-Jews to keep the Sabbath or eat kosher for example. But certainly the religions of the world are going to smack their foreheads and say, "Boy, you guys had it right all along."

    Zechariah 8:23
    This is what the LORD Almighty says: "In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, 'Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.'"
     
  2. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    The Zionist being brought back to the land is after the Great Tribulation (Isaiah 11:5 - 'Girdle' - Isaiah 5:21-27), and the removal of the wicked with Holy Fire (Isaiah 11:4), else it is a failed prophecy.

    The Zionist being brought back before the Great Fire is a Wicked Thing, before the Great Battle of Armageddon according to Ezekiel 38:8-12.

    For those who understand, 'Zionist' upon 'Zionist' (Ezekiel 7:26) isn't by chance.

    Ezekiel 22:15-22 states the people are brought back, so the Fire can remove the Dross; then the Age of Godliness comes...

    Many would say Baha'u'llah is the Anti-Christ for claiming himself to be God in the Temple of God, creating a covenant to bring the Zionist into the Land falsely, removing Laws, and accepting Yeshua's death as an atoning sacrifice - like he thought all prophets were martyrs to the cause, etc...

    Yet personally as saying I'm willing to work with his ideas of world peace between the religions, and help establish his cause as a chance for humanities survival; why you keep putting you think this is optimistic to my posts about it, and then ignoring this being a reality is beyond me? - Why be a Baha'i if you don't believe it. :confused:

    You're here trying to establish a prophecy of a person claiming the same things as me, we both have matching occurrences of what we want to establish a chance for humanity; the only difference is Baha'u'llah, as many others prophesied the One to come, is the unification of all religion under One Name.

    This thread is about what the 2nd Coming will look like, and is a great example; we can prove I'm the person with the New Name of the Messiah (Revelation 3:12), and I can sort the world's religion's like I do on here - Yet we really need everyone's help to achieve this as people don't listen properly, unless we're all saying it together.

    Armageddon can be a battle of the Word being a Fire, and the Current Messiah teaching Exegetical Enlightenment - if people helped.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #422 wizanda, Dec 6, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
  3. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    It will be identical the the "first" coming. ;-)
     
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  4. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Baha'u'llah did not claim to be God, He denied all such accusations hurled at Him.

    “Certain ones among you have said: “He it is Who hath laid claim to be God.” By God! This is a gross calumny. I am but a servant of God Who hath believed in Him and in His signs, and in His Prophets and in His angels. My tongue, and My heart, and My inner and My outer being testify that there is no God but Him, that all others have been created by His behest, and been fashioned through the operation of His Will. There is none other God but Him, the Creator, the Raiser from the dead, the Quickener, the Slayer. I am He that telleth abroad the favors with which God hath, through His bounty, favored Me. If this be My transgression, then I am truly the first of the transgressors. I and My kindred are at your mercy. Do ye as ye please, and be not of them that hesitate, that I might return to God My Lord, and reach the place where I can no longer behold your faces. This, indeed, is My dearest wish, My most ardent desire. Of My state God is, verily, sufficiently informed, observant.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 228


    Baha'u'llah did not create a covenant to bring the Zionist into the Land falsely

    Baha'u'llah did not say that Yeshua's death was an atoning sacrifice. Baha'is do not believe in original sin so there is nothing to atone for.
     
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  5. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Actually, the Second Coming was similar to the First Coming.

    The first coming was Jesus who was the Son of man, and the second coming was Baha'u'llah, who was the "return" of the Son of man.

    The NT refers to the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven.

    To explain in brief, Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven means that the return of the Christ Spirit promised in the Bible (who was Baha’u’llah) will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God, and will appear in the form of a human being. The term “heaven” means loftiness and exaltation. Although Jesus was delivered from the womb of His mother, in reality He descended from the heaven of the will of God. Though dwelling on this earth, His true habitation was the realms above. While walking among mortals on earth, Jesus soared in the heaven of the divine presence. The SAME can be said of Baha'u'llah.
     
  6. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    //jamaican accent

    No man, da second coming was king selassie man, the king of kings and the lord of lords, the lion of zion of the tribe of juda man!

    It was totally mystical!

    Rastafari!
     
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  7. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    It is clear you just like to argue, and do not care about the fate of the human race.

    The post was defending that even with what we can see as potential errors, I'd still defend the cause of Baha'i - with the argumentative nature, you're making us think it isn't worth it.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  8. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe I am proof of the reality of God.
     
  9. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe that is backwards. If someone contradicts what God said then he is not a messenger of God. Herein lies the problem when a person becomes an idyl the he can't be wrong no matter how wrong he is.
     
  10. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    In case you are wondering about this. I believe the fact is that people like to mystify things. Something that may turn out quite natural is turned into something supernatural. I believe it isn't impossible for God to do something supernatural but the Bible is replete with God doing natural things.
     
  11. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Show me where I was arguing, as in "fighting" with anyone. o_O

    I do care about the fate of the human race, but I cannot make other people care. All most religious people care about are their OWN beliefs, the beliefs of the older religions whose dispensations have been abrogated by the Revelation of Baha'u'llah. They will continue waiting till hell freezes over for the Messiah they have made in their own image to return but he will never come, because He has already come.
    You cannot say you are the Messiah while at the same time say you are defending the Baha'i Faith, because Baha'u'llah claimed to be the Messiah.
    There are not two different Messiahs, there is only One. :)
     
  12. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    We all have our beliefs... ;)

    You atheists do not know how lucky you are to be able to joke around about religious beliefs instead of having to talk seriously about them. :rolleyes:
     
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  13. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    You have a point and the rolly eyes indicate that it could be said;

    Or very unlucky :)

    Luke 23:34 “Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing........ ."

    It has a lot to do with knowing one's own self;

    "...man's supreme honor and real happiness lie in self-respect, in high resolves and noble purposes, in integrity and moral quality, in immaculacy of mind." ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, The Secret of Divine Civilization, p. 19

    Regards Tony
     
  14. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member

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    You are not...
     
  15. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Baha'u'llah prophesied there is one to come after him, who comes before the Great Tribulation... I was told this as a child by God that it will happen in my life time, and to unite the religions.
    The reason you're arguing is, because having explained where prophecy Baha'u'llah made is fulfilled by me, and rather than listen you just argue to defend Baha'i like some zealous follower, whilst ignoring his prophecies are real.

    Just like the Sanhedrin who didn't study the Tanakh to see Yeshua's fulfilment; now the Baha'i do the same, and don't care to study all prophecies properly.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  16. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    What contradiction are you referring to?
     
  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    But how SOON one event follows the other is not specified anywhere.
    Baha’i history was chronicled by the Baha’is who lived in the 19th century, and later Shoghi Effendi used that to write God Passes By. Baha’u’llah was not “recognized” as a Messenger of God by anyone else so there is no reason why scholars would take an interest and write about Him.
    A Manifestation of God is NOT God, not any more than your image in a mirror is you. He is called a Manifestation because He manifests the attributes of God on earth, but God can never manifest His Essence on earth and reveal it to man since God is exalted beyond anything that can ever be recounted or perceived. What Baha’is believe is not the same as what Christians believe about Jesus being an incarnation of God:

    “The Christian equivalent to the Bahá'í concept of Manifestation is the concept of incarnation. The word to incarnate means 'to embody in flesh or 'to assume, or exist in, a bodily (esp. a human) form (Oxford English Dictionary). From a Bahá'í point of view, the important question regarding the subject of incarnation is, what does Jesus incarnate? Bahá'ís can certainly say that Jesus incarnated Gods attributes, in the sense that in Jesus, Gods attributes were perfectly reflected and expressed.[4] The Bahá'í scriptures, however, reject the belief that the ineffable essence of the Divinity was ever perfectly and completely contained in a single human body, because the Bahá'í scriptures emphasize the omnipresence and transcendence of the essence of God….”
    Jesus Christ in the Bahá'í Writings

    I find it ironic that what you believe is very similar to what Christians believe about Jesus. The only difference is that Christians believe Jesus is divine and you believe the Messiah will be a man with no divine qualities. But the similarity is that you both believe the Messiah will be like a Superman who will single-handedly solve all the world’s problems. This is what I call magical thinking, just like Christians have.

    The other similarity you have to Christians is that you have created a Messiah in your own image, assigning qualities to him according to what you “believe” he will be like. Then you fabricated a story around him, stating what you “believe” he will do. The problem is that none of this is in any scriptures. It is just your projection of your own desires and expectations onto the scriptures, according to what you “believe” they mean.
     
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  18. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Since about 50% of the world’s Jews live in the United States, I would hardly call that scattered.
    That prophecy is certainly open to different interpretations. I wonder how other Jews interpret it, whether they believe it has been fulfilled.
    Regarding David, you might want to read these articles because they explain it a lot better than I ever could:

    Was Christ the Messiah? Christians and Jews Disagree

    Fulfilling the Prophecies of Judaism and Christianity
    I already knew from previous debates with Jews on other forums that Jews believe the Torah will be *restored* when the Messiah comes.

    So you believe that the *one religion* of the future will be Judaism? Do you really believe that all the people of the world will become Jews and follow the Torah? There are only 14 million Jews in the world today and Judaism has been around for over 4000 years. By contrast, there are already 7 million Baha’is in the world after only 150 years.

    How do you think this *mass conversion* is going to happen? Do you think the Messiah is going to wave his magic wand and make everyone follow the Torah? So much for free will. This is even more fantastical than what Christians believe will happen at the second coming of Christ. Christians might believe they are chosen but even Christians are not so naïve to believe everyone in the world will someday become a Christian.

    This is essentially what Baha’is also believe will happen eventually. The religions of the world are going to smack their foreheads and say: "Boy, you guys had it right all along. Baha’u’llah was a Manifestation of God." The reason it will probably take a long, long time for this to happen is because 84 percent of the world population has a faith and they all believe that their religion is the “true one.” However, Baha’u’llah has assured us that eventually God will make sure everyone is on board.

    “Warn and acquaint the people, O Servant, with the things We have sent down unto Thee, and let the fear of no one dismay Thee, and be Thou not of them that waver. The day is approaching when God will have exalted His Cause and magnified His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth. Place, in all circumstances, Thy whole trust in Thy Lord, and fix Thy gaze upon Him, and turn away from all them that repudiate His truth. Let God, Thy Lord, be Thy sufficing succorer and helper. We have pledged Ourselves to secure Thy triumph upon earth and to exalt Our Cause above all men, though no king be found who would turn his face towards Thee.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 248-249
    Do you think this verse saying “God is with you” means that God is only with the Jews?

    It is a Baha’i belief that God’s chosen people are the people who choose God. Those who choose God are the people who choose to believe in God’s Messenger in every age.God promises a great reward to these people in the scriptures of their religions.

    The Jews were chosen because they chose to believe in Moses, who was the Messenger of God for that religious dispensation. The Christians were chosen because they chose to believe in Jesus. Now, in this new religious dispensation, the Baha’is are the chosen people because we have chosen to believe in Baha’u’llah.

    “Say: Is there any doubt concerning God? Behold how He hath come down from the heaven of His grace, girded with power and invested with sovereignty. Is there any doubt concerning His signs? Open ye your eyes, and consider His clear evidence. Paradise is on your right hand, and hath been brought nigh unto you, while Hell hath been made to blaze. Witness its devouring flame. Haste ye to enter into Paradise, as a token of Our mercy unto you, and drink ye from the hands of the All-Merciful the Wine that is life indeed.

    Drink with healthy relish, O people of Bahá. Ye are indeed they with whom it shall be well. This is what they who have near access to God have attained. This is the flowing water ye were promised in the Qur’án, and later in the Bayán, as a recompense from your Lord, the God of Mercy. Blessed are they that quaff it.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 45-46
     
  19. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    What I really meant to say is that atheists are lucky because they do not have to argue with anyone over whose beliefs are RIGHT.

    I much prefer to talk to atheists and one reason is that I am tired of arguing with believers. They all believe only their religion is right, or that it is the best, so what is the point?
     
  20. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Baha’u’llah said that no Prophets would come after Him ere the expiration of 1000 years.

    “Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor. We pray God that He may graciously assist him to retract and repudiate such claim. Should he repent, God will, no doubt, forgive him. If, however, he persisteth in his error, God will, assuredly, send down one who will deal mercilessly with him. Terrible, indeed, is God in punishing! Whosoever interpreteth this verse otherwise than its obvious meaning is deprived of the Spirit of God and of His mercy which encompasseth all created things. Fear God, and follow not your idle fancies. Nay, rather follow the bidding of your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Wise.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 346
    What prophecy are you referring to? o_O
     
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