What was your original reason to become a RF member?

[Spirit of Light]

A few years back I'd have agreed with you. There were a lot of atheists whose main contribution to the forum seemed to be calling theists idiots. It got to the point where the proselytising rule was amended to include non-belief and a pinned thread was added to the paranormal subforum warning people that ridiculing other members for their beliefs isn't allowed.

Things got a lot better after that. However, I've recently noticed a disturbing trend of theists creating multiple threads with the apparent intention of telling atheists they're flat out wrong/deluded/stupid. Alternatively they may be intended to "prove" that atheists are actually theists in denial.


Anyway, the reason I joined is a bit murky to me now as it was a long time ago. I think I was an atheist at the time and very disillusioned with theism (like a lot of people, my view of theism was heavily focused on the Abrahamic view) but was also aware that religion does not necessarily have to be theistic. If I remember correctly, I hadn't come across a religion that really suited me and wanted to see what was on offer. From there, I became interested in the mythologies and philosophies of various religions and stuck around for those discussions.

Fast forward to now and I've found that Paganism is the most accurate label for my beliefs, though I don't subscribe to any particular religion within the Pagan spectrum. Turns out that sometimes you just have to go your own way. I've also had plenty of time to analyse and dissect the various benefits, problems and quirks of various expressions of theism and religion. There's still a lot to learn though and I relish those occasional threads that have me mulling over their content for the rest of the day.

This is the kind of answer i was hoping for when i created the OP Yes you kind of agree with my OP but in same time you have your own thoughts and view, But you are answering in a honest and Respectful manner, and it was this i hoped for. To show that even we not always agree with each other, we can still be respectful toward each other also when we come from different spiritual background.
And then someone maybe thinking, But hey Amanaki, you are not always respectful you self, you had some bad answers too. And yes I have had that, And honestly I am not proud of those answers i given. I'm trying to become better in my responses too, I know that i have many faults in my own lifestyle.

 

[oldbadger]

Yes this is a reaction i seen in my life too, People seem to not want us around if they know we hold a certain belief or follows a certain path. To me Atheists is just another challenge in my life where I am the one who need to take time to think if I am the one who could change my way of being, I dont ask Atheists to change That is not my task in life. In a spiritual setting my task in life is to Change Me, not them. IF i learn something about my self that could be better, I am the one who would need to do the work to become the better person But yes i do sometimes wonder what the goal of Atheists in a religious forum actually is.

Thankyou for your reply, Amanaki....
Atheists are sorely needed on RF, as is every other kind of group, religion, mindset, cult or persuasion.

There's something that atheists can very good at. As you know some religions have their extreme, fanatical and dangerous elements, and the hatred that can extend out (just from those) against freedom of dress, expression, sexuality, love and life is total blackness imo.

Atheists who are experienced in adjusting hearts and minds with the written word can help to warn others by tearing in to such groups in ways that are so effective, and we need them ...... really. Tearing down oppressive, puritanical, inquisition hopefuls is quite their forte.

But don't you worry........ you certainly are nothing like the religious maniacs that I'm thinking of, in fact few of such folks survive RF for long imo. They tend to polarise and seek shelter around (for example) the more extremist Christian websites where atheists get chucked off on discovery..........

 

[oldbadger]

You weasel you!

What in the world is a "historical Baptist"?

I would have liked that name........ skanky weasel!

Historical Baptist? My perception of the real one.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I would have liked that name........ skanky weasel!

Historical Baptist? My perception of the real one.

Historical Baptist = Old fashion baptized dude

 

[exchemist]

I work for a paranational thinktank.

Gosh for a moment there I read "paranoidal", but that would be a think tank of Trump supporters, so I knew it couldn't be where you work - and then I re-read it.

 

[exchemist]

You weasel you!

What in the world is a "historical Baptist"?

John The.......?

 

[ChristineM]

I know some people have been members for years, so maybe you don't recall the true reason you signed in to RF the first time. But if you recall it, Why did you choose RF? And how do you feel about RF today? In my case, I signed in because I was in a mood of searching and when seeing RF discussion from the outside it looked really good. But now a little over a year since I become a member I wonder why I bothered in the first place. In one year the RF has declined a lot in what we discuss and how the discussion goes.

And of course, there is the question that been lingering for some time. Why do aggressive Atheists sign in to a religious forum? I don't mind atheists in general, and I respect you're disbelieve, but why choose a religious forum to discuss? Maybe I am wrong, but it almost seems like you trying to tear apart spiritual people and make them suffer???? I do not understand this. Should Spiritual people respect the Atheists but not be respected back??

I was a member of another forum who did the dirty on all non North American/Canadian members by shadow banning them (the day after trump took office).

Shadow banning is particularly nasty because poster can see their own posts but no one else can, it is deceitful. It took me a few hours before i realised I was not recieving replies.

I began to research other forums. RF appeared to be the best of them for several reasons. The moderation prevented food fights (common on my old forum), although the content was a little limited, it was often interesting and cerebral and, the interface is pretty good.

On my old forum, shadow banning did not extend to PMs. I contacted all the members i knew informing them of RF. Several of whom (including some not effected by the shadow ban) have moved to RF, either because of my PM or they found it on their own.


Why do you consider atheists aggressive?, perhaps for questioning your faith? Isn't questioning and learning of the beliefs of others what RF is about?

As to spiritual people respecting atheist. Have you actually read some of the anti atheism threads that are posted by some believers? Have you read any of the 'you will burn in hell' posts aimed at atheists?
Respect is earned, not freely given and atheist have been trodden on for thousands of years. It is only in recent times that their voice has been head and many religious people do not like that one bit.

As a side note, my old forum went belly up a few months ago. Perhaps limiting its user base caused a reduction in advertising revenue.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I know some people have been members for years, so maybe you don't recall the true reason you signed in to RF the first time. But if you recall it, Why did you choose RF? And how do you feel about RF today? In my case, I signed in because I was in a mood of searching and when seeing RF discussion from the outside it looked really good. But now a little over a year since I become a member I wonder why I bothered in the first place. In one year the RF has declined a lot in what we discuss and how the discussion goes.

I was reccomned this forum on other forums. Notably @tas8831 and I seem to remember @Subduction Zone also mentioned it a few times.

And of course, there is the question that been lingering for some time. Why do aggressive Atheists sign in to a religious forum?

What do you mean by "aggressive"?
Do I qualify, for example?

Why or why not?

I don't mind atheists in general, and I respect you're disbelieve, but why choose a religious forum to discuss?

It's fun.
And sometimes interesting.

Maybe I am wrong, but it almost seems like you trying to tear apart spiritual people and make them suffer????

I like to think of it as lifting them up and putting them back together after their religion actually teared them a new one.

So perhaps this is just how you interpret it?

Religion is a very personal and oftenly very emotional thing. It involves deeply held beliefs to can go to the core of someone's "soul", if you wish. So it's not surprising that they feel personally attacked when actually just the religion is being critized / scrutinized. They tend to identify with their religion and god so much that any "attack" on those, is seen as an attack on themselves.

The more fundamentalist the theist, the more obvious this behaviour is.

I do not understand this. Should Spiritual people respect the Atheists but not be respected back??

I always formulate it like this:

I respect you as a person. I respect your right to believe whatever shenannigans you want. And I think both these things are fundamental in a secular democratic society.

But I am under no obligation at all to respect what you believe. I am under no obligation to respect your opinions. I respect your right to hold your opinions and I will never fault you for having an opinion.

But that doesn't imply I'm going to respect the opinion by default. Not at all.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I dont get torn apart anymore by Atheists who try to say something about my own path, I have come to rest about that. But many people are often "attacked" by Atheists because they believe in something that can not be seen.

I certainly get frustrated talking to people like that. Sometimes this frustration may come across as annoyance.

So maybe i am more about finding the answers why Atheists can just let Believers have their belief, and if they want to know, Ask in a nicer manner, instead of being rude (not every atheist is rude).

Consider the possibility that, for many atheists, the reason they feel the need to talk about religion at all is because of the negative impact it's had on their own life.

We've had non-theist members here for whom religion has broken up their marriages, estranged them from their families, caused them to lose their jobs, made them lose their homes, oppressed them with unjust laws, and on, and on. If they're only slightly snarky when they get here, then they're much more well-behaved than they would be if they responded to religion the way that religion has treated them.

But i notice, almost every time a religious or spiritual person say something in this forum, there will be an argument with an Atheist down the line.

... if you post in an open debate forum, quite possibly.

If you aren't interested in debating with atheists, there are the DIR forums.

And if you want to debate but just not with atheists, there's Same Faith Debates.

... but if you start a conversation in a place that invites debate from everyone, don't be surprised when you get debate from people you disagree with.

Discussion is fine. But when a person just push you of as wrong or even as an idiot, without even knowing anything about the topic, then i do Wonder why. But do not worry, i can manage a discussion or two. But it would be good if it was in a civilized way.

Keep in mind that there's more to having a "civilized" discussion than just using polite language.

If a religious person is arguing, say, that a class of people doesn't have the right to exist, then they're really arguing for violence, regardless of the words they use. It's entirely appropriate for someone to call that threat out for what it is and respond to accordingly.

In your case, I often see you minimizing and dismissing negative experiences of non-theists. This is a form of disrespect and not very "civilized," IMO.

 

[exchemist]

I know some people have been members for years, so maybe you don't recall the true reason you signed in to RF the first time. But if you recall it, Why did you choose RF? And how do you feel about RF today? In my case, I signed in because I was in a mood of searching and when seeing RF discussion from the outside it looked really good. But now a little over a year since I become a member I wonder why I bothered in the first place. In one year the RF has declined a lot in what we discuss and how the discussion goes.

And of course, there is the question that been lingering for some time. Why do aggressive Atheists sign in to a religious forum? I don't mind atheists in general, and I respect you're disbelieve, but why choose a religious forum to discuss? Maybe I am wrong, but it almost seems like you trying to tear apart spiritual people and make them suffer???? I do not understand this. Should Spiritual people respect the Atheists but not be respected back??

I've a feeling I answered this on another thread, not so long ago, but never mind.

I joined because I have a concern that the internet, US politics, and Richard Dawkins et al are feeding a false dichotomy between science and religion. Both are becoming weapons in the ghastly "culture wars" that weary so many of us. So primarily I joined to show the non-Christians that most of Christianity is not fundamentalist bible-bashing and that science is perfectly compatible with sensible interpretations of the faith.

But I also joined to learn. This is not the first forum I have joined and I am always learning bits and pieces from them. (This morning for instance, I learned, on another forum, about the distinction between contact, direct and airborne transmission of viruses - you can guess the context, I imagine.)

 

[Audie]

I

Why do you consider atheists aggressive?, perhaps for questioning your faith? Isn't questioning and learning of the beliefs of others what RF is about?

As to spiritual people respecting atheist. Have you actually read some of the anti atheism threads that are posted by some believers? Have you read any of the 'you will burn in hell' posts aimed at atheists?
Respect is earned, not freely given and atheist have been trodden on for thousands of years. It is only in recent times that their voice has been head and many religious people do not like that one bit.

As a side note, my old forum went belly up a few months ago. Perhaps limiting its user base caused a reduction in advertising revenue.

Maybe coz I am not gentle in my way of addressing
misty eyed bs.

 

[Howard Is]

I joined for the cold beer and hot women.

How’s that working out for you ?
We should organize a party. I’ll bring the beer.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I would think most spiritual people wish to follow the law or guideline of the spiritual path they have chosen to follow, and not the secular law and order, and if atheists want their own law and order for secular life, they can have it.

Perhaps I misread you there... but did you just say that atheists should go create their own country?

Sure sounds like it.

Also, from what you said here, it sounds as if you think that "secular democracy" exists for the benefit of the atheist and to the detriment of theist, is that correct?

Because I can assure you that that is not the case.
Secularism serves to protect BOTH the theist and the atheist, in that it seperates religious beliefs (or lack thereof) from governmental control and enforcement.

This means that government can't come to your house to forbid you from worshipping whatever god you wish (or to force you to worship another), just like it can't come to my house demanding I worship whatever deity they want me to.

Secularism protects my freedom to not believe, just like it protects your freedom to believe.

But a reason for my question is that most countries in the world today are more towards living away from spirituality and the guidelines with in spiritual living.

Countries don't do that. People do that.
There is nothing in secular democracy which prevents or prohibits you from living your life according to whatever "spiritual guidelines" you deem fit or important.

Unless off course, your "spiritual guidelines" instruct you to rape little boys and slaughter women that wear pants or some nonsense like that. And I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that that is not the case...

So seriously, in what way do you feel like secular society prevents / prohibits you from living your life according to the "spiritual guidelines" you deem important?

What would you want to be able to do that you aren't able to do?

But why try to tear it away from those who wish to live a spiritual life?

Nobody is tearing away anything by voicing opinions.

 

[BSM1]

Looking back I can't think of any sane reasons to join RF; so, of course, I knew this was the place for me. Haven't been disappointed yet.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Why do you consider atheists aggressive?, perhaps for questioning your faith? Isn't questioning and learning of the beliefs of others what RF is about?

As to spiritual people respecting atheist. Have you actually read some of the anti atheism threads that are posted by some believers? Have you read any of the 'you will burn in hell' posts aimed at atheists?
Respect is earned, not freely given and atheist have been trodden on for thousands of years. It is only in recent times that their voice has been head and many religious people do not like that one bit.

As a side note, my old forum went belly up a few months ago. Perhaps limiting its user base caused a reduction in advertising revenue.

I do not see all Atheists as aggressive, but some, who seem to not be able to understand that even we can not see or feel the God, Buddha or other deities we may believe in we are still able to understand the teaching given, and often the teachings is not about how God is or Buddha is, but about how we as followers would have to become during the practice to be able to reach the purity we're looking for. And when we try to give an explanation we get laughed at or ridiculed. And yes even that is a part of becoming stronger in the belief, it should not be needed in a forum like this. We are here to have a good time, not feel we are not wanted in a religious forum. And just to be clear, I do welcome atheists here of course I do, But some atheists here seem more interested in making fun or push down believers. And i would like that to stop.

Of course many believers could be better toward atheists too, and yes there are extreme people within religion too, and that is equally wrong too. A Good discussion about belief and spirituality is always welcome, by why does it have to be similar to a fight?

 

[HonestJoe]

I know some people have been members for years, so maybe you don't recall the true reason you signed in to RF the first time. But if you recall it, Why did you choose RF?

Generally for entertainment to pass the time plus the vague possibility that something I say might have a positive impact on someone. I think RF specifically because it was the first active religious forum that came up in a Google search.

Why do aggressive Atheists sign in to a religious forum?

Exactly the same set of reasons aggressive theists do I expect. In general people tend to have less in common with others they share an opinion with and more in common with others they share the extend or intensity of opinion with. I know I always get on better with people who politely disagree with me than those who intensely and unconditionally agree.

Should Spiritual people respect the Atheists but not be respected back??

We should all respect each other regardless of beliefs and the disrespect gets flung in all sorts of directions. Trying to blame it all on one “side” or another is part of the problem in itself.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Perhaps I misread you there... but did you just say that atheists should go create their own country?

Sure sounds like it.

Also, from what you said here, it sounds as if you think that "secular democracy" exists for the benefit of the atheist and to the detriment of theist, is that correct?

Because I can assure you that that is not the case.
Secularism serves to protect BOTH the theist and the atheist, in that it seperates religious beliefs (or lack thereof) from governmental control and enforcement.

This means that government can't come to your house to forbid you from worshipping whatever god you wish (or to force you to worship another), just like it can't come to my house demanding I worship whatever deity they want me to.

Secularism protects my freedom to not believe, just like it protects your freedom to believe.



Countries don't do that. People do that.
There is nothing in secular democracy which prevents or prohibits you from living your life according to whatever "spiritual guidelines" you deem fit or important.

Unless off course, your "spiritual guidelines" instruct you to rape little boys and slaughter women that wear pants or some nonsense like that. And I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that that is not the case...

So seriously, in what way do you feel like secular society prevents / prohibits you from living your life according to the "spiritual guidelines" you deem important?

What would you want to be able to do that you aren't able to do?

Nobody is tearing away anything by voicing opinions.

Perhaps I misread you there... but did you just say that atheists should go create their own country?

No this is not what i said, I said it would be better if none believers followed the political rules put forth, whereas spiritual people followed the spiritual rules of their chosen path. (of course traffic law of course would be for both sides and practical laws that touch both religious and none religious people.)

Also, from what you said here, it sounds as if you think that "secular democracy" exists for the benefit of the atheist and to the detriment of theist, is that correct?

Spiritual people should not take part in politics, whereas it's ok for Atheists to do. (i know i had my share of political comments in this forum, and i do really regret them today, i was wrong in my view)

What would you want to be able to do that you aren't able to do?
Actually it is not so much about what I want, it is more toward those who struggle more in a very degraded spiritual society that I hope to be able to help. There are so many spiritual people out there who are afraid of speaking up, because they fear they will be ridiculed and looked down at, so in this i would think that eve the little i can do, I can be a voice for the spiritual people who feel to weak in their belief to stand against ridiculing.

Honestly i dont care if Atheists want to tear me apart or not.I kind of have gone past that stage in my life. So why not speak up for those who do not dare?

 

[Spirit of Light]

We should all respect each other regardless of beliefs and the disrespect gets flung in all sorts of directions. Trying to blame it all on one “side” or another is part of the problem in itself.

I have to agree on this, And my OP is not to ridicule Atheists, but i found that some atheists are more "aggressive" than other atheists in their way of speaking in this forum. I do not want to shut them off or out, I just want a nicer way of being spoken to and with.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I certainly get frustrated talking to people like that. Sometimes this frustration may come across as annoyance.


Consider the possibility that, for many atheists, the reason they feel the need to talk about religion at all is because of the negative impact it's had on their own life.

We've had non-theist members here for whom religion has broken up their marriages, estranged them from their families, caused them to lose their jobs, made them lose their homes, oppressed them with unjust laws, and on, and on. If they're only slightly snarky when they get here, then they're much more well-behaved than they would be if they responded to religion the way that religion has treated them.



... if you post in an open debate forum, quite possibly.

If you aren't interested in debating with atheists, there are the DIR forums.

And if you want to debate but just not with atheists, there's Same Faith Debates.

... but if you start a conversation in a place that invites debate from everyone, don't be surprised when you get debate from people you disagree with.


Keep in mind that there's more to having a "civilized" discussion than just using polite language.

If a religious person is arguing, say, that a class of people doesn't have the right to exist, then they're really arguing for violence, regardless of the words they use. It's entirely appropriate for someone to call that threat out for what it is and respond to accordingly.

In your case, I often see you minimizing and dismissing negative experiences of non-theists. This is a form of disrespect and not very "civilized," IMO.

I do not disagree with you in your post here, you clearly have many good thoughts and know a lot. And if it sounded like i think Atheists does not have their own problems with some of us who believe, that is maybe down to my lack in English language, And if you feel i minimized atheists problem i will do my best to not do that again, because i do not wish to come forth as a nagging old man (42 isn't that old)

 

[ChristineM]

I do not see all Atheists as aggressive, but some, who seem to not be able to understand that even we can not see or feel the God, Buddha or other deities we may believe in we are still able to understand the teaching given, and often the teachings is not about how God is or Buddha is, but about how we as followers would have to become during the practice to be able to reach the purity we're looking for. And when we try to give an explanation we get laughed at or ridiculed. And yes even that is a part of becoming stronger in the belief, it should not be needed in a forum like this. We are here to have a good time, not feel we are not wanted in a religious forum. And just to be clear, I do welcome atheists here of course I do, But some atheists here seem more interested in making fun or push down believers. And i would like that to stop.

Of course many believers could be better toward atheists too, and yes there are extreme people within religion too, and that is equally wrong too. A Good discussion about belief and spirituality is always welcome, by why does it have to be similar to a fight?

May i suggest that you report post that offend you. One of the reasons this site is above others is because of the active and fair moderation.