What was the forbidden fruit

[Azrael Antilla]

This is an omniscient deity right?

Showing a remarkable lack of foresight there. Lolz.

 

[osgart]

So you think they already understood the difference between right and wrong before they ate the fruits of the "tree of knowledge of good and evil"?

They understood what God commanded and that there were consequences and punishment for doing it, but they did not know the full extent of their own rebelliousness til they ate. So they were guilty before they ate it. Apparently God wanted them to decide for themselves who they are as people.

So like God created them perfect. God had to give them the freedom to choose life or death, good and evil because to truly be free according to one's own will. God's desire was that they would choose to accept God's truth and be true friend's of God. God wasn't ever going to force someone to choose life because that would be slavery not companionship.

 

[exchemist]

They understood what God commanded and that there were consequences and punishment for doing it, but they did not know the full extent of their own rebelliousness til they ate. So they were guilty before they ate it. Apparently God wanted them to decide for themselves who they are as people.

So like God created them perfect. God had to give them the freedom to choose life or death, good and evil because to truly be free according to one's own will. God's desire was that they would choose to accept God's truth and be true friend's of God. God wasn't ever going to force someone to choose life because that would be slavery not companionship.

They were tricked by the serpent, according to the story. I do not see how they can be accused of guilt if they had no conception of right and wrong.

 

[exchemist]

Guessing, I'd say that the forbidden fruit of knowledge is sexual reproduction. They were naked, God made genitals (male and female), but didn't expect Adam nor Eve to use them. Consequences were a burgeoning population of Eden, which God didn't expect. It's like the time I took in unfixed (not spade and not neutered) stray cats....soon I was buried alive in kittens, and kittens' kittens. I was feeding them with 50 pound cat food sacks per day, and couldn't give adequate attention to all of them, so they grew up feral (afraid of people).

At this point, God kicked out Adam and Eve from Eden, and they realized that they were naked and were ashamed. So ashamed, they were reluctant to have sex until God said "go forth and multiply." Modern Catholics likely have the wrong take on that phrase. They believe that it means "have as many kids as possible." not "don't be ashamed to have sex." I think that God is good at math, and math says that an exponentially growing population will soon consume all resources and all will starve (and compete violently for whatever food is left).

Once again, we see that the bible seems to give sound advice, but that advice is not understood.

It reminds me of God's advice (actually, a commandment) not to wage war or kill. He also advised to "turn the other cheek." But, stressed by terrorist attack, we defy God, think that God will not get the terrorists in His own way, and wage wars (and even use torture camps).

The 8 year old little boy and 13 year old little boy who were tortured along with the rest of them at Guantanamo, Cuba, did not know where Osama bin Laden was, and they were not privy to the high lever military strategies employed by the al Qaeda.

Al Qaeda prisons tortured at Guantanamo for almost 8 years, did not know current locations of their fellow soldiers, since they moved years ago, so torturing them was not productive.

God advised not to kill (and I'm sure He didn't want torture), but mankind defied God. God advised not to eat the forbidden fruit of knowledge (likely carnal knowledge), but mankind defied God then, too. The bible doesn't give bad advise, but mankind doesn't follow the advise of God.

I think this is a dreadful road to go down. There is nothing in the story to suggest sex was forbidden and it is a terrible thing to saddle people with guilt for something that is part of their own bodily design.

 

[exchemist]

For some reason, the word pomegranate, leaped out of deep recall. Dunno why.

Persephone?

 

[Link]

I don't believe that, and have no memory beyond my physical existence. So I'd love to know what you're basing that claim on?

I do have memory personally and even can swear I remember the soul beside me and I promised that soul I would protect and do my best to help, and who God allowed to be born in my time but seems I have no chance of saving or guiding anyways.

I remember it now but my proof for it is my own experience.

I've had a lot telepathy experience both in real time and in dream world with the family of the reminder and other holy souls and good souls, but also with the dark side sorcerers and jinn. I've experienced both realms and also recall a lot of my experience in the pre-world including promising a promise I cannot keep to a soul beside me.

Magic to me I sense it, the inward world I constantly perceive and my refuge is in God's Name and the light of his face.

 

[osgart]

They were tricked by the serpent, according to the story. I do not see how they can be accused of guilt if they had no conception of right and wrong.

They must've had a conception of it before they ate it otherwise it's a meaningless story. Otherwise it's God being deceitful. I don't think that's the case. God must've taught them enough before hand. They were in God's company and they knew the situation before eating the fruit.

The whole story is about trusting God, or trusting the serpent. One is honorable, the other a liar. They had the company of both before the event.

 

[exchemist]

They must've had a conception of it before they ate it otherwise it's a meaningless story. Otherwise it's God being deceitful. I don't think that's the case. God must've taught them enough before hand. They were in God's company and they knew the situation before eating the fruit.

The whole story is about trusting God, or trusting the serpent. One is honorable, the other a liar. They had the company of both before the event.

Well yes I agree, for the story to make literal sense. But if that's right, what significance can eating the fruit of the tree of "knowledge of good and evil" have?

 

[osgart]

Well yes I agree, for the story to make literal sense. But if that's right, what significance can eating the fruit of the tree of "knowledge of good and evil" have?

The only significance would be knowing good and evil beyond what they already knew of it. Once they ate of it their eyes were fully opened to it's consequences. Before eating it all they knew was that God forbid it and that God was trustworthy. So they did what was in their hearts unknowingly, other then that which God had shown them.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

In chapter 3, He presented the coming of the Messiah that would remedy the problem.

I find the first prophecy about Messiah to remedy the disobedience problem is found at Genesis 3:15.
Messiah will even destroy Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Well yes I agree, for the story to make literal sense. But if that's right, what significance can eating the fruit of the tree of "knowledge of good and evil" have?

I find the 'tree of knowledge of good and evil' belonged to God.
In other words, out of all the trees on Earth only one tree belonged to God.

If you had a generous neighbor who had many fruit trees and he said you can come over any time and have a much fruit as you want except for one particular tree.
Wouldn't you consider your neighbor as being very generous _______
So, to me there was No reason for either Adam nor Eve to touch God's fruit.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The only significance would be knowing good and evil beyond what they already knew of it. Once they ate of it their eyes were fully opened to it's consequences. Before eating it all they knew was that God forbid it and that God was trustworthy.............

Yes, they knew God forbid it and God told why. The reason for Not eating is because eating would mean: Death.
- Genesis 2:17
So, yes their eyes were then fully opened to the bad consequences then of sickness and death.
Before disobeying God and stealing from His tree they did Not know the evil of sickness, the evil of death.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I think it could have been any fruit tree that was just separated and called specific. When the fruit is forbidden, it becomes tree of knowledge, because when one disobeys, he will learn about good and right. So, it really doesn't matter what exactly it was, because same would have been the result with any tree that would have been selected for the purpose.

Interesting point ^ above ^ because I think God could have chosen any fruit tree for His own.
There could have been a whole lot of the same fruit trees there, but out of all the same ones God just chose one.
Adam and Eve already knew the good ( live forever on Earth in perfect health without getting sick )
They did Not know the bad/evil yet because before they broke the law they were never sick and never had died.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I thought the deity in that myth was omniscient? If that were so, wouldn't he have known what was going to happen before it happened?

I find in the Bible God granted both angels and humans the capacity of free-will choices.
In other words, God chooses Not to know our choices.
We are all free to act responsibly toward God or Not !
This is why at Revelation 7:9 the number of the Great Crowd of saved people is an Un-known number.

 

[Kenny]

No he didn't - "Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur".

Your saying so doesn't make it so.

please try again.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Well it was none of those. It was the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. As far as I know it was only in the garden of Eden and I don't expect that it can be found anywhere on earth currently.

Even in the Garden of Eden there could have been more than one of the same fruit tree.
God merely singled out one fruit tree to be His very own tree out of all the trees on Earth.
As to what tree or tree type that was there we could find out during Jesus' coming thousand-year reign over Earth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

They were tricked by the serpent, according to the story. I do not see how they can be accused of guilt if they had no conception of right and wrong.

In Scripture it was only Eve that was tricked or deceived - see 1 Timothy 2:14
on the other hand, Adam deliberately ate what he knew was wrong.
In a sense, Adam committed suicide rather then continue to live without Eve.

Because they never got sick, they never died before, then 'yes' they had No concept knowledge of sickness and death.

P.S. Unless, if Adam stepped on a bug and saw the dead bug did not move or live any more.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

But Adam and Eve were celibate in Eden.

Since Adam and Eve were married (Genesis 2:24) and they were to reproduce (Genesis 1:28) then they were never celibate.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So you think they already understood the difference between right and wrong before they ate the fruits of the "tree of knowledge of good and evil"?

Eve's comment to the Serpent at Genesis 3:2-3 shows she had knowledge. Adam too at Genesis 2:17

 

[Segev Moran]

Some claim it was an apple, some claim a fig but from what I understand the bible doesn't mention what it was, its just called the forbidden fruit

Is this an example of not knowing so the blank is filled in by what we think or what it might be.

I wonder how much of the bible is/has been interpreted that way.

It is not called the "forbidden fruit". It is called only a fruit. and it is also not a fruit in the sense of Apple or Orange literally.
A fruit (פרי) in Hebrew is a name for something that was conceived out of something else.
For example "פרי בטן", means child (Fruit of the "abdomen").
Food that grows from the earth (like carrots, potatoes, etc.) are also referred to as fruits of the land (פרי האדמה).
It derives from the root word פרה, which means "fertile".
There is no specific description of the fruit besides the fact it was very appealing (in the sense of lust) (תאוה).