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Featured What was the forbidden fruit

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by We Never Know, Nov 28, 2021.

  1. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Some claim it was an apple, some claim a fig but from what I understand the bible doesn't mention what it was, its just called the forbidden fruit

    Is this an example of not knowing so the blank is filled in by what we think or what it might be.

    I wonder how much of the bible is/has been interpreted that way.
     
  2. Rival

    Rival Divine Adoratrice of Amun
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    A lot of what folks think they know about the Bible is misunderstood or simply totally wrong. Or a lot is based on traditions that aren't necessarily wrong, but do need justifying to some degree.
     
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  3. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul One Planet One People Please
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    I have understood the forbidden fruits as transgressing the laws of God, like Dishonesty instead of honesty,

    Though I have never really contemplated the story in detail, mostly because God has expanded on what is Good and Evil.

    Regards Tony
     
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  4. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Well, we know it couldn't have been a durian, because Eve could never have induced Adam to eat one.
     
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  5. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    The story I remember, the forbidden fruit were grapes. This follows on to the story of Noah who brought a grape vine with him on the ark, then planted it and made wine once the flood ended and embarrassed himself.
     
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  6. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    While the smell is bad, it supposedly taste good.
     
  7. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    I thought I was from a tree, not a vine.
     
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  8. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    According to my research in Shiite hadiths.

    It's the tree of life and knowledge, and so to eat of it is metaphorical, was to become jealous and want their station "to be of the exalted ones" was the whisper of Satan to Adam (a), to the extent Adam (a) doubted if the veils were light from God and true in what they said and since Iblis swore by God, he sought to attain their station.

    To eat of it, was to say, go ahead, envy them, and try to attain their station, their so called God they call is really only forbidding you it so you don't attain the station of these kings and eternal authority and high exalted perpetual station of authority.

    So in reality, Adam (a) knows God doesn't lie or deceive, and so was doubting the voice of God because Iblis swore by God, and so this was the a battle between a false concept of God through Iblis vs true reality through the "exalted ones" and tree of life and tree of knowledge.

    It was the exalted ones that were the tree of life who took rest on the 7th day and God does not need rest nor does slumber ever take him.

    In reality, Iblis doesn't have his own concept of a Creator but tells some of his followers that and others he denies it and says he is the highest being and calls to be worshiped by them. In reality the first Atheist was Iblis, he disbelieved in the Creator and the link to him, when could not understand what God said regarding Adam due to his own arrogance of his own nature.


    Wanting the station is not evil in itself, but him not trusting the voice of God through these lights and God's promise and word, Adam (a) was at fault for that.

    To his defense, Iblis swearing deceived Adam (a) because of Adam's (a) own truthful nature.

    There's more to it, how would he attain their rank? Some of it has been metaphorically told so we perceive spiritual reality but also to cover the deepness of the sin of Adam (a) and make us understand the nature of sin all together.

    Adam (a) sin was no small one, but his repenting fast and admitting his fault shows he is still of God's chosen. God knows if he deviated, he would repent and remain on the straight path and quickly return or would not have chosen him.
     
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  9. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    That's a good point; I double checked, and it appears there are multiple sources postulating it was a grape.

    Forbidden fruit - Wikipedia.

    To your larger question: why isn't specified? I think you're correct that leaving out some details allows for multiple interpretations.

    For example: I think there can be a case made that the forbidden fruit is the ability to argue and find loopholes in the law given by God. The serpent in the story teaches by example, then Eve teaches it to Adam. As a result they are banished from Eden because they now know how to subvert God's laws using the "forbidden fruit" which is argumentation.
     
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  10. Psalm23

    Psalm23 Active Member

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    The Bible doesn’t mention what kind of fruit it was. For some reason, it is often portrayed as an apple.
     
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  11. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    It appears that there is no definitive answer. Here's some speculation from Wiki:

    Identifications and depictions

    The word fruit appears in Hebrew as פֶּ֫רִי (pərî ). As to which fruit may have been the forbidden fruit of the Garden of Eden, possibilities include apple, grape, pomegranate, fig, carob, etrog or citron, pear, quince, and mushrooms. The pseudepigraphic Book of Enoch describes the tree of knowledge: "It was like a species of the Tamarind tree, bearing fruit which resembled grapes extremely fine; and its fragrance extended to a considerable distance. I exclaimed, How beautiful is this tree, and how delightful is its appearance!" (1 Enoch 31:4).

    In Islamic tradition, the fruit is commonly either identified with wheat or with grapevine.

    Apple
    In Western Europe, the fruit was often depicted as an apple. This was possibly because of a misunderstanding of – or a pun on – two unrelated words mălum, a native Latin noun which means evil (from the adjective malus), and mālum, another Latin noun, borrowed from Greek μῆλον, which means apple. In the Vulgate, Genesis 2:17 describes the tree as de ligno autem scientiae boni et mali : "but of the tree [literally wood ] of knowledge of good and evil" (mali here is the genitive of malum). The larynx, specifically the laryngeal prominence that joins the thyroid cartilage, in the human throat is noticeably more prominent in males and was consequently called an Adam's apple, from a notion that it was caused by the forbidden fruit getting stuck in Adam's throat as he swallowed it.

    Grape
    Rabbi Meir says that the fruit was a grape, made into wine. The Zohar explains similarly that Noah attempted (but failed) to rectify the sin of Adam by using grape wine for holy purposes. The midrash of Berei**** Rabah states that the fruit was grape, or squeezed grapes (perhaps alluding to wine). Chapter 4 of 3 Baruch, also known as the Greek Apocalypse of Baruch, designates the fruit as the grape. 3 Baruch is a first to third century text that is either Christian or Jewish with Christian interpolations.

    Fig
    The Bible states in the book of Genesis that Adam and Eve had made their own fig leaf clothing: "And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig-leaves together, and made themselves girdles". Rabbi Nehemiah Hayyun supports the idea that the fruit was a fig, as it was from fig leaves that God made garments for Adam and Eve upon expelling them from the Garden. "By that with which they were made low were they rectified." Since the fig is a long-standing symbol of female sexuality, it enjoyed a run as a favorite understudy to the apple as the forbidden fruit during the Italian Renaissance, Michelangelo Buonarroti depicting it as such in his masterpiece fresco on the Sistine Chapel ceiling.

    Pomegranate
    Proponents of the theory that the Garden of Eden was located somewhere in what is now known as the Middle East suggest that the fruit was actually a pomegranate, a plant indigenous from Iran to the Himalayas and cultivated since ancient times. The association of the pomegranate with knowledge of the underworld as provided in the Ancient Greek legend of Persephone may also have given rise to an association with knowledge of the otherworld, tying-in with knowledge that is forbidden to mortals. Also, it is believed Hades offered Persephone a pomegranate to force her to stay with him in the underworld. Hades is the Greek god of death and the Bible states that whoever eats the forbidden fruit shall die.

    Wheat
    Rabbi Yehuda proposes that the fruit was wheat, because "a baby does not know to call its mother and father until it tastes the taste of grain."bIn Hebrew, wheat is "khitah", which has been considered to be a pun on "khet", meaning "sin" Although commonly confused with a seed, in the study of botany a wheat berry is technically a simple fruit known as a caryopsis, which has the same structure as an apple. Just as an apple is a fleshy fruit that contains seeds, a grain is a dry fruit that absorbs water and contains a seed. The confusion comes from the fact that the fruit of a grass happens to have a form similar to some seeds.

    Mushroom
    A fresco in the 13th-century Plaincourault Abbey in France depicts Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, flanking a Tree of Knowledge that has the appearance of a gigantic Amanita muscaria, a psychoactive mushroom. Terence McKenna proposed that the forbidden fruit was a reference to psychotropic plants and fungi, specifically psilocybin mushrooms, which he theorized played a central role in the evolution of the human brain. Earlier, in a well-documented but heavily criticized study, John M. Allegro proposed the mushroom as the forbidden fruit.

    Banana
    Several proponents of the theory exist dating from the thirteenth century. In Nathan HaMe’ati's 13th century translation of Maimonides's work The Medical Aphorisms of Moses, the banana is called the "apple of eden". In the sixteenth century, Menahem Lonzano considered it common knowledge in Syria and Egypt that the banana was the apple of Eden.
     
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  12. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    I would think the statement of "tree of the knowledge" would eliminate a few of those.
    Unless it wasn't a tree and if it wasn't a tree, it eliminates many of those.
     
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  13. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    I believe the tree of life and knowledge are the exalted ones spoken about in the Torah and Gospels.

    Mohammad (s) and his family (a) are that tree, he wanted to attain their rank and likeness, and Iblis deceived him that he should envy them and want to attain their station. He made it as if Ahlulbayt (a) lied to him to keep them from attaining an "authority that doesn't disappear".

    And so he temporality doubted if Ahlulbayt (a) properly represent God or had deceived him and had taken authority of the universe through deception. So he approached them to attain the station of Authority as in top authority, but there was severe consequences when he did.

    However, when he repented, he did so through the intercession of Mohammad (s) and his family (a) and attained his former rank of being chosen and exalted.
     
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  14. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Alright already! Why does it always fall to me to clear up these abstruse questions of philosophy?
    It was a pomegranate. :cool:
     
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  15. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity ✔ a-OK RF member .99/lb
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    Pomegranate is my guess: partly edible, partly not. If you touch it stains your fingers. Its also one of the decorations used for the tabernacle (tent of meeting). Bells and pomegranates, not bells and apples.
     
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  16. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity ✔ a-OK RF member .99/lb
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    Oh, you made a lucky guess!
     
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  17. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Or .. Blueberries
    Some of the antioxidants in blueberries have been found to accumulate in the brain and help improve communication between brain cells
     
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  18. The Hammer

    The Hammer Wyrd Walker
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    the_forbidden_fruit-1560653683l.jpg
     
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  19. Guitar's Cry

    Guitar's Cry Verisimilitudinous

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    I like the idea of it being something psychotropic or fermented, since this lines up with the idea of Christ on the Cross being the fruit of the other tree in the Garden that produces eternal life. Alcohol was always considered divine; Dionysus worshippers considered wine to possess folks with his spirit, hence being drunk, and it being the blood of Christ makes sense in this way (can't have it freshly squeezed. Gotta let the old boy ferment up there awhile!) since drug-induced states of mind work to remove some of the separations between the self and environment.
     
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  20. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Yes, it's an apple in Northern European tradition, but then our artists have also given Mary fair hair on many occasions. It's just adapting the story to what people are familiar with.
     
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