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What was John the Baptist's real name?....... plus anything else about him...?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by oldbadger, Aug 19, 2013.

  1. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    John the Baptist. Is the word 'baptist' Greek? Was that his chosen language?

    Maybe people called him John the Healer? Well, since the true Jews believed that sin lead to or caused illness, by cleansing his own of sin surely he was healing them? Ergo, did he see himself as John the Healer? How many people felt a positive placebo affect from being immersed and spiritually cleansed by John? How many people actually were cured of illnesses by him?

    Or was he John the Zealot? Look at what he thought about and how he spoke to the priesthood, as if a pack of hypocritical shallow semi-supporters of the invaders?

    But...... Baptist...? Really? It just sounds (reads!) as if it might be some title given to him by hellenists long after his death.

    Surely he deserves even more recognition ....

    What do you think?
     
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  2. ChristineES

    ChristineES Tiggerism
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    What we know of John is this: He was the son of Lazarus and Elisabeth. Elisabeth was a relative of Mary's. John was a Nazarite- a man dedicated to God (other Nazarites include Samuel and Samson).
     
  3. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Hi Christine.....

    OK.... That is Luke's rendering..... and John's maybe? I must admit that I've always felt that those reports of John's parenthood etc to be ........ difficult for me to accept.

    But there is more......... How he dressed, lived, ate. What he said. How he felt about the priesthood and herodian officials. That he was arrested. That he had interesting conversations with Herod A. That his death was manipulated by H's wife through her daughter. That his disciples included Andrew and Philip. That other disciples of his went to a stayed with Yeshu at different times.

    There is more. He resided in deserts adjacent to the Jordan. His conversations with Yeshu. It just goes on.

    But............ what was his name?...... his real name? I don't know. :)
     
  4. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Dwayne. But everyone called him "Booger." "John" carried a lot more credibility, so that's what the media called him. "Dwayne the Baptist" just didn't inspire a lot of confidence. And "Booger the Baptist" didn't attract the pious.
     
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  5. angellous_evangellous

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    "Baptize" is a transliteration of the Greek word (it sounds in English as it would sound in Greek, and the characters are even similar).

    In Greek, it's "John the Baptizer," probably to distinguish him from the many other Johns who are in the NT and early Christianity.
     
  6. biased

    biased Active Member

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    Yahya ibn Zakariyya is the name the Mandeans gave him. The Mandeans religion highly revered him, perhaps this can assist you in your quest.
     
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  7. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Thankyou very much.

    I do need to read everything possible about the Mandeans. And I need to split that name and put it thru Aramaic and Hebrew dictionaries. And I need to think about him.

    Great post, imo.
     
  8. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Thanks for that.... so it looks like this name was given to him, either during his life by hellenists, or after his death by evangelists.... is that about right?

    I'm getting the feeling that his movement was massive, but that his 'other messages and speeches' were simply not recorded.
     
  9. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    OK....... Dwayne. I like it. It somehow smacks of the spiritual. You know what I mean? Dwayne the Ducker. Ahhhh! Got it! So the media and marketing spivs would have said something like, 'Now Dwayne, we all know that you're Dwayne the Ducker, but, well, hell, Dwayne, you know what the morons are going to do with that! So how does 'Booger' sound to you, man?

    Damn it, but that's just wonderful. You know how when the truth just goes 'click' and drops into place? .... your wisdom flows through and across the ether like a curlew at dawn flight.....:)

    Question...... Are you..... by any, outside, minute possibility...... a 'Red Dwarf' follower?
     
  10. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    No, I'm not. But glad you like the droll humour.
     
  11. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    You're not a Red Dwarf fan? I would have lost money on that one.

    Dwayne Dibbly is the Cat's alter ego, the Cat being super cool, cutting edge of fashion and style, and Dwayne being the most nerdy, uncool character ever.....:)

    Oh well, I can't be right all the time......:D
     
  12. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    John wore horn-rimmed glasses and a plastic pocket protector.
     
  13. Levite

    Levite Higher and Higher

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    John is the Anglicized Latinization or Hellenization of the Hebrew Yochanan, a popular name at that time. I have seen Hebrew translations of the Hebrew Scriptures that render "Baptist" as ha-matbil, meaning "the immerser," clearly playing off the the word for immersion used in association with going into a mikveh or ritual purification pool. However, the construction ha-matbil is modern, and there is, to my knowledge, no usage of the sort deriving from that root in Jewish writings of that time. So my supposition is that whatever they called him that the Greek scriptures rendered as βαπτιστης, it was probably something other than that. And it's anyone's guess whether the byname would've been in Hebrew or Aramaic, for that matter.
     
  14. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    So did Dwayne Dibbley!!! :yes:
    And Dwayne Dibbly had sticky out teeth.

    Are you sure you're not a Red Dwarf nut?
     
  15. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Thanks for the above....

    Another member has pointed out that the Mandeans call him 'Yahya ibn Zakariyya'.

    I sent this through an Aramaic/english translator, and came up with 'Restorer, son of ------.', there being no translation of 'Zakariyya'.

    I like the look of John the 'Restorer', as in 'Restoring the working Jewish people to the Lord's lands, ways, rules and laws. But, please can you help?

    Question:- Is there an Aramaic name for 'Yochanan'?
    Question:- Do you have a full translation for 'Yahya ibn Zakariyya'?

    Is there anything else that you can tell us about JtB?
     
  16. Pastek

    Pastek Sunni muslim

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    His name in arabic is Yahia wich has the roots of "life" = hayat
    It's close to Yohanan his real name.

    Yahya (Yohanan/John) the son of Zacharias
     
    #16 Pastek, Aug 22, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2013
  17. Levite

    Levite Higher and Higher

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    Yochanan is the common form of the name used in all Jewish communities of the time, Aramaic or Hebrew speaking. It's actually a later form of the name: the earlier form, from Biblical times, was Yehochanan. The name, in either form, means "YHVH is gracious." There were one or two informal bynames or nicknames for Yochanan in Aramaic, but not a full cognate name. The closest to it would be Chanina, which means "gracious," and could've implied that it was God who was gracious.

    The Mandaic name Yahya ibn Zakkariya is interesting, since Yahya is not cognate to the Hebrew Yochanan, but to Yechiyah. The Hebrew form of the Mandaic name would be Yechiyah ben Zechariyah. "Yechiyah" means "God lives," "ben" is "son of," and "Zechariyah" means "God remembered."

    I don't really know anything about John. It's not really my field of expertise. But if I had to guess, I would suppose he came out of one of the radical ascetic sects of the time, along the model of the Essenes or Qumranim. These were sects obsessed with ritual purity and impurity, for whom immersion in the mikveh (ritual purification pool) was a central aspect of their observance on a daily basis (as opposed to an as-needed basis in normative practice of the time). They also tended to be apocalyptic in their beliefs, which early Christianity certainly was also.
     
  18. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Never seen it. But I grew up amongst a gaggle of such people...
     
  19. nash8

    nash8 Da man, when I walk thru!

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    Is Nazarite = Nazorean?

    What is the closest english translation to the Hebrew "Yechiyah"?

    So if John knew Jesus and vica versa, you think it would be likely that Jesus had connections to the Essene community?
     
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