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What was carved on the Tablets?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by linwood, Jan 26, 2005.

  1. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    I just ran across the "Who Carved the ten Commandments" thread and a question I asked in another debate popped into my head.

    I was wondering if anyone could tell me what scripture tells us exactly which laws were carved on the tablets?

    Anyone know?
     
  2. No*s

    No*s Captain Obvious

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    We don't know. Presumably it could have been the commandments scattered throughout the Pentateuch. That's a guess, though, and it comes down to the fact that we just don't know.
     
  3. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    Lol, that reminds me of a joke...

    One day in a local monastery, one of the older monks decided to spend the day in the library cataloging the famous collection of ancient books and documents that the monastery housed. The other monks left him alone to do his work in peace.

    As the sun began to set, the old monk had still not emerged from the library, so the other monks decided to send a messenger in there to try and encourage the old monk to call it a day. When the messenger entered the library, he was met by the sight of manuscript after manuscript--some lying about on the floor, and others stacked neatly in finished, organized piles. The most disturbing sight, however, was that of the old monk crying in the center of the room where he sat. He had a particularly old document in his lap, and was mumbling something as his shoulders rocked with tears. The messenger ran to try and comfort the old monk, and eventually got him to settle down and his tears to abate.

    When asked what was the matter, the old monk pointed to a single line on the paper in his lap and exclaimed, "It doesn't say celibate, it says celebrate!"
     
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  4. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    I didn`t think we did, at least I`ve been unable to find any mention of which laws are the ten.

    If this is so then how did we get these ?

    1. You shall not worship any other god but YHWH.

    2. You shall not make a graven image.

    3. You shall not take the name of YHWH in vain.

    4. You shall not break the Sabbath.

    5. You shall not dishonor your parents.

    6. You shall not murder.

    7. You shall not commit adultery

    8. You shall not steal.

    9. You shall not commit perjury.

    10. You shall not covet.


    Where did they come from?


    Who compiled this list and said it was given to Moses by God?
     
  5. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    I think No*s has given the best answer possible, but maybe a definition might help:

    Decalogue
    (Greek deka, ten and logos, word).
    The term employed to designate the collection of precepts written on two tables of stone and given by God to Moses on Mount Sinai. The injunctions and prohibitions of which it is composed are set forth in Exodus (20:1-17) and in Deuteronomy (5:6-21). The differences discernible in the style of enumerating them in Exodus as contrasted with Deuteronomy are not essential and pertain rather to the reasons alleged for the precepts in either instance than to the precepts themselves.

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04664a.htm
     
  6. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    I understand that.

    But try to think of this from my atheistic point of view.

    Y`know I have to have a reason for everything :)

    I do not know how those particular ten laws became attributed to what was literally written in stone by God.

    I can find know where reference to god telling Moses "which" ten laws he was carving just that he would carve the laws.

    How do we know these were the ten he carved?
    How doe we know he didn`t carve a completely different set?
     
  7. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Well.... I can tell you from my years as an atheist: I wouldn't have given a rat's butt about some fairy tale.

    ..... but, you seem to enjoy it, so what do I know?;)

    Either does anyone else on this planet.
    We? I know because I believe in the Church..... you will never be convinced as there is no "evidence" you would find credible.

    Sorry I can't give a better answer... maybe one of the non-Catholic theists will play along for ya!;)

    Scott
     
  8. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    I sure hope so.

    :)

    But doesn`t that strike anyone else as extremely weird?

    That so many believe these ten laws are the cornerstone to morality yet don`t even really know where they came from or why they were compiled the way they are?
    Can`t even really "know" these are the ten laws God wants followed most because he doesn`t say which laws they are in scripture?

    Mind blowing from my POV.

    The naturally following question is:

    Who Compiled The ten Commandments?

    Who?

    Do we know?

    I thought that might be an answer you had some insight into Scott.

    Did the early church have anything to say about the commandments?
     
  9. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Now you're talking my language!

    LAW
    GENERAL: The essence (90), various kinds (91), and effects (92) of law.
    ETERNAL LAW: The eternal law (93).
    NATURAL LAW: The natural law (94).
    HUMAN LAW: Human law (95) and its power (96) and mutability (97).
    OLD LAW: The old law (98) and its precepts (99): moral (100), ceremonial (101) and judicial (104). The causes (102) and duration (103) of the ceremonial precepts. The reason (105) for the judicial precepts.
    NEW LAW: The law of the Gospel (106) or new law and its comparison with the old (107). What (108) the new law contains.

    You can't get much better than Saint Thomas
     
  10. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

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    You're right in that the scriptures don't say specifically, "These are the Ten Commandments" or anything to that effect. But we can percieve that from the way they are presented to us, that there is something special about them. These are the first real commandments that are given for the whole nation of Israel. The first, and probably the most important, - the basis for all other laws. Do you see where I am coming from?

    I would think that it was obvious that God compiled them. They are spoken directly from God in Genesis 20. I guess I don't see what the confusion is about.
     
  11. No*s

    No*s Captain Obvious

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    Frankly Linwood, we have only Tradition on the matter. It's just something passed down, and we look at the Bible like that (even Protestants adhere to the Tradition). I don't think we can offer more.
     
  12. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    From the traditional Orthodox Jewish view...the tablets with the commandments were written by G-d Himself while the rest of the Torah was revealed to Moshe by G-d. It is that belief which places so much emphasis on the Ten Commandments, that these aren't just rules but rules written by the Divine Itself.

    But once you leave that view point.....honestly i don't have a friggin clue who could have written them, aside from them being a collection of mores that became canonized as the Jewish faith evolved.
     
  13. prosecutor

    prosecutor Member

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    To linwood:

    The answer to your question about "which laws were carved on the tablets" is found in Deuteronomy 5:1-22.
     
  14. BUDDY

    BUDDY User of Aspercreme

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    The Ten Commandments, are simply the first ten commandments of God's Law to his people. I believe if you read the text in its context, you will see that the entire law was written on the tablets. In the new testament, Jesus was asked which was the greatest of the Laws. He said, "Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul, strength and mind." After that one, all of the others fall into place. As far as the cornerstone of religion is concerned, it certainly is to the Jewish faith, but for Christians, the old Testament Laws power over man ended with the death of Jesus Christ and the establishment of the new kingdom (more excellent way) which we live under now. Hope this helps, but personally, I am really not sure what you are asking for. This answers I am giving seem like they should be pretty simple.
     
  15. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    What scripture states this?

    I`m wondering where the list of ten commandments came from.

    I know they are ten of Gods laws but how do we know it was these ten carved into the tablets?

    I cannot find reference to it in the Bible nor can anyone here it seems.

    Thanks though.
     
  16. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

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    Exodus 20:3,4, 7-17 is the actual list of the 10 commandments. We know that these are the fisrt commandments because no other specific commantments or laws are given to the whole nation of Israel before these. That's how we know.

    Exodus 20: 3,4, 7-17.

    We already said that we dont know for sure, but we can be fairly certain based on the context.
     
  17. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    I understand that linus but ewred just arrived in this debate and I thought he/she might have some info we`ve overlooked.

    I don`t see where the context gives any clue.
     
  18. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    A few teachings that might help you understand... at least from a Catholic view:

    2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words." God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God," unlike the other commandments written by Moses. They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus and Deuteronomy. Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words," but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.


    2060 The gift of the commandments and of the Law is part of the covenant God sealed with his own. In Exodus, the revelation of the "ten words" is granted between the proposal of the covenant22 and its conclusion - after the people had committed themselves to "do" all that the Lord had said, and to "obey" it.23 The Decalogue is never handed on without first recalling the covenant ("The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.").24

    2061 The Commandments take on their full meaning within the covenant. According to Scripture, man's moral life has all its meaning in and through the covenant. The first of the "ten words" recalls that God loved his people first:

    Since there was a passing from the paradise of freedom to the slavery of this world, in punishment for sin, the first phrase of the Decalogue, the first word of God's commandments, bears on freedom "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery."25

    22 Cf. Ex 19.
    23 Cf. Ex 24:7.
    24 Deut 5:2.
    25 Origen, Hom. in Ex. 8,1:pG 12,350; cf. Ex 20:2; Deut 5:6
    .

    Hope this helps a bit.....
     
  19. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

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    Edit: I had previously posted an incorrect verse. I have since corrected it.

    Exodus 24:12 - Now the LORD said to Moses, "Come up to Me on the mountain and remain there, and I will give you the stone tablets with the law and the commantdment which I have written for their instruction

    Exodus 31:18 - When He had finished speaking with him upon Mount Sinai, He gave Moses the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written by the finger of God.

    So here in these two verses we have Moses Being told he will recieve the the tablets of law, and finally a few chapters later, recieving them. In the next chapter, in verse 19, we have Moses breaking the commandments.

    I believe that it its reasonable to assume that All of the law given to Israel up to that point ( the laws from chapter 20 to chapter31) had been written on those tablets, the ten commandments (being the first, the most important, the cornerstone of morality) included. Does this help any?
     
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  20. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    My opinion? It was the Sunday comic strips from January 30th, 2005. Oh, you are funny, Garfield, you are! :biglaugh:
     
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