What type of mystic are you?

[Vouthon]

Or phrased differently, what type of route to mysticism appeals to you?

There are many different "types" of experiences which can lead to mystical consciousness: visionary, ordinary & direct are the three categories I am considering in this thread.

I would just like to elaborate on these three things above that can facilitate a mystical experience of the Absolute:


1) Visions/supernatural leading to mystical states

2) Ordinary experiences which lead to mystical states

3) Direct mystical experience without either visionary or ordinary experiences mediating it


I will illustrate these three by quoting from the writings of three mystics typical of these differences. Which one do you relate to more? Or do you relate to them all equally? Or none of them at all (ie mysticism might hold no meaning for you or else)?

Please explain why. I have chosen three from the Catholic tradition to illustrate:


1) Hadewijch of Antwerp. Visionary mystic

"...One Pentecost at dawn I had a vision. Matins were being sung in the church and I was there. And my heart and my veins and all my limbs trembled and shuddered with desire...This much I can say about it: I desired to consummate my Lover completely and to confess and to savour in the fullest extent--to fulfil his humanity blissfully with mine and to experience mine therein, and to be strong and perfect so that I in turn would satisfy him perfectly: to be purely and exclusively and completely virtuous in every virtue. And to that end I wished, inside me, that he would satisfy me with his Godhead in one spirit (1 Cor 6:17) and he shall be all he is without restraint. For above all gifts I could choose, I choose that I may give satisfaction in all great sufferings. For that is what it means to satisfy completely: to grow to being god with God...

When at that time I was in a state of terrible weariness, I saw a great eagle, flying towards me from the altar. And he said to me: "If you wish to become one, then prepare yourself." And I fell to my knees and my heart longed terribly to worship that One Thing in accordance with its true dignity, which is impossible--I know that, God knows that, to my great sadness and burden. And the eagle turned, saying, "Righteous and most powerful Lord, show now the powerful force of your Unity for the consummation with the Oneness of yourself."...

Then he came from the altar, showing himself as a child. And that child had the very same appearance that he had in his first three years. And he turned to me and from the ciborium he took his body in his right hand and in his left hand he took a chalice that seemed to come from the altar, but I know not where it came from. Thereupon he came in the appearance and the clothing of the man...Then he gave himself to me in the form of the sacrament, in the manner to which people are accustomed. Then he gave me to drink from the chalice in the manner and taste to which people are accustomed. Then he came to me himself and took me completely in his arms and pressed me to him. And all my limbs felt his limbs in the full satisfaction that my heart and my humanity desired. Then I was externally completely satisfied to the utmost satiation.

At that time I also had, for a short while, the strength to bear it. But all too soon I lost external sight of the shape of that beautiful man, and I saw him disappear to nothing, so quickly melting away and fusing together that I could not see or observe him outside of me, nor discern him within me. It was to me at that moment as if we were one without distinction. All of this was external, in sight, in taste, in touch, just as people may taste and see and touch receiving the external sacrament, just as a beloved may receive her lover in the full pleasure of seeing and hearing, with the one becoming one with the other. After this I remained in a state of oneness with my Beloved so that I melted into him and ceased to be myself. And I was transformed and absorbed in the spirit, and I had a vision about the following hours..."

- Hadewijch of Antwerp (13th centry), Dutch Catholic woman mystic

Here we have a characteristic episode in the life of a visionary mystic. Hadwijch has a vision of an eagle, a child, a beautiful man and hears ecstatic voices beckoning her towards partaking of the Eucharist. This vision then ends. The man disappears and Hadewijch has an ineffable, mystical experience of union with God beyond sense or form.

If Hadewijch's experience had ended with the vision, and not the experience of union with God would she be a "mystic"? No she would be a visionary. Yet her vision led to a mystical state. This is what happens in the case of visionary mystics.


2) Brother Lawrence. Ordinary mystic.

This is a section from his biography, written by his close friend Father Joseph de Beaufort:

He began life as Nicholas Herman, born to peasant parents in Lorraine... Herman had an experience that set him on a unique spiritual journey; it wasn't, characteristically, a supernatural vision, but a supernatural clarity into a common sight.

In the deep of winter, Herman looked at a barren tree, stripped of leaves and fruit, waiting silently and patiently for the sure hope of summer abundance. Gazing at the tree, Herman grasped for the first time the extravagance of God's grace and the unfailing sovereignty of divine providence. Like the tree, he himself was seemingly dead, but God had life waiting for him, and the turn of seasons would bring fullness. At that moment, he said, that leafless tree "first flashed in upon my soul the fact of God," and a love for God that never after ceased to burn. Sometime later, an injury forced his retirement from the army, and after a stint as a footman, he sought a place where he could suffer for his failures. He thus entered the Discalced Carmelite monastery in Paris as Brother Lawrence.

He was assigned to the monastery kitchen where, amidst the tedious chores of cooking and cleaning at the constant bidding of his superiors, he developed his rule of spirituality and work. In his Maxims, Lawrence writes, "... Is it not quicker and easier just to do our common business wholly for the love of him?"

For Brother Lawrence, "common business," no matter how mundane or routine, was the medium of God's love. The issue was not the sacredness or worldly status of the task but the motivation behind it. "Nor is it needful that we should have great things to do. . . We can do little things for God; I turn the cake that is frying on the pan for love of him, and that done, if there is nothing else to call me, I prostrate myself in worship before him, who has given me grace to work; afterwards I rise happier than a king. It is enough for me to pick up but a straw from the ground for the love of God..."

- Brother Lawrence (1614 – 1691), The Practice of the Presence

As you can see Brother Lawrence never had any visions which led him to a mystical state. Rather it was insight into ordinary experiences, such as looking at a tree, or working in a kitchen that led him to mystical union with God. For Ordinary mystics any common thing can precede and lead too a mystical state: a walk on the beach, seeing a sun set, making love to one's spouse, speaking with a close friend etc.


3) Mother Isabel Daurelle. Direct mystic.

"...I entered the interior of my soul, and seemed to descend into the giddy depths of an abyss where I had the impression of being surrounded by limitless space. There I felt the presence of the Blessed Trinity, realizing my own nonthingness...My soul resembled a tiny shell floating peaceful and solitary upon a shoreless ocean. What a joy it was! Now I often say to myself, 'let me descend!' but the scene is changed...

The light which has filled my soul has not come from books but from the Holy Spirit although I have had neither ecstasies or visions...

Without seeing anything with the eyes of either the body or the soul, I realized that God was present...I seemed plunged in God. My imagination was submissive and did not act. I did not hear any noise that might be going on around me..."

- Mother Isabel Daurelle (died 1914)

As you can see, the "direct" mystic is not lead to the mystical state through a vision or paranormal experience. However neither is he/she lead to it by clarity into an ordinary experience of life. Rather the direct mystic is lead directly to mystical consciousness, without an intermediary such as a vision or common experience. The direct mystic might have been silently praying, or simply feel called to retreat "inwards" or have a "divine flash" of mystical consciousness, suddenly with no stimuli.

So what "type" of mystic are you? By this I am not meaning non-dual, dualistic etc. One can be a non-dualistic mystic yet be an "ordinary mystic". My question is not about the actual content of the mystical state but how one gets to it - through visionary type experiences, ordinary experieces or directly.

 

[Vouthon]

I should add that a person doesn't have to have had a self-identified "mystical experience" to participate in the poll. It could just be what type you relate too

 

[YmirGF]

All three, with a leaning towards Ordinary Mystic, which in and of itself is a bit of an oxymoron, but nothing I can't live with. That said, most, if not all, of my visionary experiences precipitated from ongoing transcendent experiences. The "visitations" definitely heightened the existing transcendent experience. Likewise the Direct route experiences emerged out of my normal transcendent experiences, much in the same way that ordinary events often "bloom" into supra-real experiences of heightened awareness in everyday life. After awhile it all becomes fairly routine... to the extent that the causal observer may not notice anything unusual as I am looking intently at a bird or deer or flower or ashtray...

OK, OK, OK... if someone saw me looking at an ashtray for 20 minutes they might think that was a bit weird, LOL. I call it the art of stopping the world, which means one learns how to slow down the experience of time. So, an observer might notice that I seemed to "skip a beat" and looked at something for a bit longer than usual without understanding what I had actually been doing.

Edit: It might be nice to have the option of "A combination of all 3"

 

[Vouthon]

All three, with a leaning towards Ordinary Mystic, which in and of itself is a bit of an oxymoron, but nothing I can't live with.

Ah but mysticism involves paradox doesn't it? Of course, you are right in that mystical consciousness is not an "ordinary" experience but "ordinary mystic" is not referring to the state itself, merely that person's route too it through ordinary experiences.

That said, most, if not all, of my visionary experiences precipitated from ongoing transcendent experiences. The "visitations" definitely heightened the existing transcendent experience. Likewise the Direct route experiences emerged out of my normal transcendent experiences, much in the same way that ordinary events often "bloom" into supra-real experiences of heightened awareness in everyday life. After awhile it all becomes fairly routine... to the extent that the causal observer may not notice anything unusual as I am looking intently at a bird or deer or flower or ashtray...

A fascinating combination of all three types. I had an inkling that some people would not fall neatly into either of the 3 categories (human beings are most complex) although some likely will.

Could you please, if I may ask, select on the poll "other type of mystic"? I meant to infer by that mainly a combination of all three types. Or could I change the poll to incorporate that? If so please tell me (I don't know how too)!

 

[YmirGF]

I meant to infer by that mainly a combination of all three types. Or could I change the poll to incorporate that? If so please tell me!

I thought that was what you meant. To change a poll requires a happy RF Moderator wielding a super secret RF wand.

(You might have to bribe them however...)

 

[Vouthon]

I thought that was what you meant. To change a poll requires a happy RF Moderator wielding a super secret RF wand.

LOL Thanks for "cluing" me in. I'll contact a mod and see what happens. If it does change then please do select the "All 3" option

 

[crossfire]

ordinary and indirect--aka nebulous.
Its rather subtle.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Ordinary

 

[Breathe]

Ordinary, and direct.

 

[maxfreakout]

I am a strictly psychedelic mystic, which approximately involves elements of the top 3 poll categories, visionary, ordinary and direct.

I experience mystical rapture by ingesting the divine sacrament (the entheogenic eucharist), the experiences that results vary between visionary/aesthetic, intellectual, ordinary and nondual.

 

[Quintessence]

Wow, this sure is something challenging to think about!

I think I would have to say that Neopaganism or nature-centered paths in general heavily emphasize the "ordinary mystic" angle, but I would caveat that by noting that there is a general attitude that nothing in this world is ordinary. One of the tag lines in my own Book of Shadows is "seek that which hides in plain sight," meaning to seek the Mysteries in the tangible world all around you. Our gods are, after all, nature itself, so connecting with the "ordinary" world is one of the hearts of the modern Pagan movement. "Visionary mystic" angles are also extremely common in Neopaganism, as many of us recognize and work with the otherworlds quite a bit. Some Neopagan practices are tailored specifically to facilitate these kinds of experiences, from pathworkings to drum circles.

I ended up voting "ordinary mystic" because that is more the core of my own path, but could have just as easily voted "visionary mystic" as well. Gods know I've had some interesting dream-visions and other experiences in the otherworlds, but most of what I do is connect to the gods/nature around me.

 

[Vouthon]

I am a strictly psychedelic mystic, which approximately involves elements of the top 3 poll categories, visionary, ordinary and direct.

I experience mystical rapture by ingesting the divine sacrament (the eucharist), the experiences that results vary between visionary/aesthetic, intellectual, ordinary and nondual.

Dear Max,

Thank you for contributing to the thread! :bow:

You might want to select the new option just added by a mod, "2 or more" which seems to fit with your definition above.

I appreciate your recognition of the Eucharist as a medium to mystical rapture and union. Hadewijch would be proud :drool:

 

[Vouthon]

Wow, this sure is something challenging to think about!

I think I would have to say that Neopaganism or nature-centered paths in general heavily emphasize the "ordinary mystic" angle, but I would caveat that by noting that there is a general attitude that nothing in this world is ordinary. One of the tag lines in my own Book of Shadows is "seek that which hides in plain sight," meaning to seek the Mysteries in the tangible world all around you. Our gods are, after all, nature itself, so connecting with the "ordinary" world is one of the hearts of the modern Pagan movement. "Visionary mystic" angles are also extremely common in Neopaganism, as many of us recognize and work with the otherworlds quite a bit. Some Neopagan practices are tailored specifically to facilitate these kinds of experiences, from pathworkings to drum circles.

I ended up voting "ordinary mystic" because that is more the core of my own path, but could have just as easily voted "visionary mystic" as well. Gods know I've had some interesting dream-visions and other experiences in the otherworlds, but most of what I do is connect to the gods/nature around me.

Dear Quintessence,

Thank you for contributing to the thread & the poll! :bow:

I particularly enjoyed reading your description above, since I know very little about Neopaganism. The idea that nothing in our world is ordinary, that mysteries are to be sought out in the tangible world around us and that the gods worshipped in your path are identified with nature itself, is most fascinating.

I must say there seems to be a growing powerbase around the 'ordinary mystic' option, even where one sees elements of the other two as well. That is insightful.

Thank you everyone so far for contributing, I should add :clap

 

[Shiranui117]

I lean towards ordinary mystic primarily, though I do have an affinity for visionary mystic as well.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I am an accidental mystic as most of my mystical experience are basically accidental. Like a blind elephant on rampage I just charge into things without knowing

 

[Vouthon]

I am an accidental mystic as most of my mystical experience are basically accidental. Like a blind elephant on rampage I just charge into things without knowing

Ah, but is that not somewhat like an un-willed, spontaneous divine flash? That sounds to me very like a direct mystic. Intriguing answer! :shout

 

[Vouthon]

I lean towards ordinary mystic primarily, though I do have an affinity for visionary mystic as well.

Thank you brother Shiranui, for participating in the thread! :bow:

 

[Sha'irullah]

Ah, but is that not somewhat like an un-willed, spontaneous divine flash? That sounds to me very like a direct mystic. Intriguing answer! :shout

Well technically that is accurate, the issue is that I never encouraged a moment of divine insight before

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Definitely ordinary or direct. Any visions I have had were more distracting than enlightening.

 

[Vouthon]

Definitely ordinary or direct. Any visions I have had were more distracting than enlightening.

This is redolent of my own experience with "visions" (or visionary-type episodes) as well. We are all different and have own our own apprehension of the divine/ineffable. Thank you for sharing yours! :bow: