truelight Mike
Member
Honestly, what is it that turns you away from embracing Christianity?
Do you feel differently about Jesus than you do Christianity?
Do you feel differently about Jesus than you do Christianity?
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what turns you off from Christianity?
- Thread starter truelight Mike
- Start date
Yeshua in the synoptic gospels is inspiring; yet Christianity contradicts him being established on John, Paul and Simon the stone (petros).
It defiles Jewish Law in numerous places, goes against most theology globally, doesn't follow its author, stands against God, etc.
I gave up Christianity for a number of reasons, among them:
1) the cosmogony and cosmology presented and accepted by many denominations is simply incompatible with what we know about the world, even metaphorically.
2) there are lots of stories about the origins and rules of the world, from different cultures: all claim to be truth, but a careful reading shows that all are just stories, even when taken metaphorically, some clearly built on earlier stories, or borrowing from other stories, or generating newer stories...there is no basis for selecting one as true over the others...
3) Generally speaking, the positions advocated in the Gospel by Jesus are largely very different (at least to my reading of them) than those in the later books of the New Testament...the interpretations by different denominations makes the situation worse.
4) Despite having a "born again" experience when I was a teenager, my experiences in life do not match well with existing denominations...in fact, in the months and years following my experience, I think the universe went out of its way to show me how wrong most of the leaders and followers I encountered were...
5) Much as I would like to believe them, I cannot trust that the words attributed to Jesus are accurate, as I know about how the Gospels were selected and written, and how there were other stories that were not accepted by the winning church traditions...
6) Over the past two millennia, many many people have done very bad things in the name of advancing the power of the churches over the people--and simply put, that is not consistent with the message of Jesus, even as it is presented in the Gospels...imo.
7) My life experiences point me toward a different understanding of reality and the nature of belief and practice, and it is not compatible with the traditional interpretations of Christianity.
I do not actually reject Jesus, although I seriously question what it is we think know about him...even if he existed. But the story of his sacrifice only has meaning for me if he was really human, really didn't know all, really wasn't perfect, really experienced doubts and urges and emotions, and so on...really didn't know the future, and in fact, for the death and resurrection to be meaningful to me at all, there had to be a real chance that he could have not been victorious...because frankly, I don't see it as any great accomplishment that an ultimate deity took on an earthly form, and let the form die and then bring it back to life while the ultimate-deity spirit knew it couldn't possible lose, couldn't actually die...but to be meaningful, one still has to accept that world-view that humans and the world are sinful or imperfect, and that there is a personal omni-max deity, and so on...
Anyway, that's some of my reasoning for no longer being a Christian in the normal sense.
A lot of the dogma does not square with modern reasoning. A very liberal view of Christianity may be better but I believe the east (India) has delved deeper ito the questions of the nature of reality.
I have a positive impression of Jesus and believe him to be a great spirit and teacher.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
One of the main reasons is that I was raised in a Conservative Christian home. I was taught to believe many things that are far from the truth, that do not match reality, and once I was exposed to information that wasn't heavily biased and filtered I realized all the lies I'd been led to believe. I learned the world wasn't out to get me because I was Christian, I learned there are basic mathematical errors with Young Earth Creationism and the Flood that cannot reconciled with basic human history, I also read the Bible and realized it centers around a god who committed horrible and egregious acts of violence.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Since this is posted in the General Discussion, and didn't specify that the question is posed only towards ex-Christians, I'm assuming its open to all.
- I don't see any reason to be turned towards it in the first place. If Christianity's central message is the golden rule, well, other religions and non-theists follow that too. So why Christianity over any other?
- The mental contortions that it takes to read the NT into the Jewish Torah are just too great for anyone not already raised to believe it.
- The concept of the great, majestic, powerfall G-d, Creator of all, as a baby who pooped his diaper, is a difficult pill to swallow.
- It doesn't seem like it should take 3,800 years and 40 Books of the Bible just to say, "be nice!".
- Coming from Judaism, personally, Christianity just doesn't follow.
- The gospels seems to be designed primarily as a polemic to Judaism, rather than a religious book in its own right.
- All the Jesus stories seem to just mimic other older stories, as though trying to build off their authenticity.
- The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition and Martin Luther to name a few.
- I don't see any reason to be turned towards it in the first place. If Christianity's central message is the golden rule, well, other religions and non-theists follow that too. So why Christianity over any other?
- The mental contortions that it takes to read the NT into the Jewish Torah are just too great for anyone not already raised to believe it.
- The concept of the great, majestic, powerfall G-d, Creator of all, as a baby who pooped his diaper, is a difficult pill to swallow.
- It doesn't seem like it should take 3,800 years and 40 Books of the Bible just to say, "be nice!".
- Coming from Judaism, personally, Christianity just doesn't follow.
- The gospels seems to be designed primarily as a polemic to Judaism, rather than a religious book in its own right.
- All the Jesus stories seem to just mimic other older stories, as though trying to build off their authenticity.
- The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition and Martin Luther to name a few.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It's notable lack of uniqueness and it's inability to demonstrate convincingly any of its teachings and claims in a manner that would reflect divine guidence, communication, and direction is even there.
The archaeology is poor and vauge, leading me to think it's more probable and likely that Christianity and Jesus were orginally a Roman invention in light of its embrace by ancient govts as a tool of manipulation and appeasement.
Clearly things worked out.
Brian Schuh
Well-Known Member
All major world religíons are content to coexist (even Islam) yet Christianity says it's their war or the highway (to hell.) Christianity's intolerances to other religions is the only reason it turns me off.
Brian Schuh
Well-Known Member
There is a typo in that, their way or the highway.
- The focus on, and almost an obsession with sin and the need for redemption and salvation. I don't understand why an omniscient God would give his creatures a test knowing they would fail, and punish them so harshly.
- That Christianity is more 'Paulism' than it is Christianity.
- The forceful conversions, including massacres in the name of the religion.
- Dogma.
Yes. I don't have a problem with the things Jesus said and why he said them, I have a problem with what his followers have done with what he said.
give me a Christian who is an old earth creationist, uses natural theology to demonstrate the existence of God and historical research on the bible and Jesus who can also give a decent response to the problem of the existence of evil and hell (beyond blaming satan) and I will spend a pleasant afternoon debating with them over lunch.
i wouldn't promise any more than that but I could see conversion being more likely in that sort of area. I don't like the idea of God but if it someone could demonstrate gods existence is probable (or better still objectively true) that would be a major step. I let my head lead my heart even if part of me "wanted" to believe in something. If they are smart enough to stump me or challenge the need for any of the above ideas, and can win me over with a good sense of humour, I'll pay for dinner.
I don't think I can say fairer than that.
Subhankar Zac
Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
As someone who was a Christian for 2 years, I must say...Book of genesis, Leviticus, numbers, etc.
Coercing for conversion.
Repeated condescension.
Homophobia, misogyny, transphobia, anti atheism, hatred of non Christians.
Overall, everything!
Coercing for conversion.
Repeated condescension.
Homophobia, misogyny, transphobia, anti atheism, hatred of non Christians.
Overall, everything!
GoodbyeDave
Well-Known Member
Several things have put me off accepting Christianity.
1. I think it's a mistake. Jesus was a practicing Jew who told his disciples to follow the Jewish law and not to preach to the Gentiles. Then Peter and Paul did exactly the opposite!
2. Today it contains beliefs that were not held by the first Christians: the evidence suggests that they held Jesus to be human (physically descended from David, according to Paul in Galatians), not an incarnation of God.
3. I don't find Jesus's teachings acceptable: too many threats of eternal torture. He was also remarkably ill-informed, with references to the Flood and a prophecy of the immanent end of the world that never came true.
4. The explanations on offer of why the son of God came to die do not make sense. The Protestant view that he could be punished on my behalf is moral nonsense. The Orthodox view that God becoming human enables humans to be come divine sounds good if you say it quickly, but it's hardly a convincing argument.
5. If Jesus saved mankind, why did God wait so long to do it? What about the countless generations who lived before Jesus?
6. If he did rise from the dead, why did he not provide clear evidence? The early writers (Mark and Paul) have nothing to say about anyone seeing a resurrected Jesus. Even if the later accounts of Matthew etc were true, why did he not show himself as publicly as when he preached?
1. I think it's a mistake. Jesus was a practicing Jew who told his disciples to follow the Jewish law and not to preach to the Gentiles. Then Peter and Paul did exactly the opposite!
2. Today it contains beliefs that were not held by the first Christians: the evidence suggests that they held Jesus to be human (physically descended from David, according to Paul in Galatians), not an incarnation of God.
3. I don't find Jesus's teachings acceptable: too many threats of eternal torture. He was also remarkably ill-informed, with references to the Flood and a prophecy of the immanent end of the world that never came true.
4. The explanations on offer of why the son of God came to die do not make sense. The Protestant view that he could be punished on my behalf is moral nonsense. The Orthodox view that God becoming human enables humans to be come divine sounds good if you say it quickly, but it's hardly a convincing argument.
5. If Jesus saved mankind, why did God wait so long to do it? What about the countless generations who lived before Jesus?
6. If he did rise from the dead, why did he not provide clear evidence? The early writers (Mark and Paul) have nothing to say about anyone seeing a resurrected Jesus. Even if the later accounts of Matthew etc were true, why did he not show himself as publicly as when he preached?
blue taylor
Active Member
Well you and Jesus have one thing in common. Jesus was a Hellenic Jew and you a Hellenic Pagan.
My lack of belief in a god or gods, mostly.
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
Utter lack of supporting evidence?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Honestly? A couple of things; well, more than a couple.
1. I felt I was using the Jesus. If my mother and I were hanging off a cliff and we had a chance to save only ourselves or each other, and my mother offered to die for me why should I take her offer and let her die? Likewise, why would she take my offer, and let me die. I see no value in someone choosing to save my life by dying. When I followed Jesus, I was using him by mentally and physically through confession putting my sins on him so they can die in him as he die. Why would I do such a thing? He already has weights on him as it is, why put more just because he suggested it. It makes more sense to carry my own cross. That is what he taught. To look to the father for help and to carry your own cross just as he. I left Christianity also because how I interpret Jesus is not how the Church does; and, I love the Church.
2. Sin. I do not agree nor feel inside I have a sinful nature. So, Jesus dying for me (if I wanted him to) would be useless because he would have no sin to relieve me of. That, and I'd never put my sins on another person. As mentioned above. Repentance and sin made me feel guilty for things I haven't done. So, that is why I left.
3. Jesus is not god. However, the church believes he is. So, that was a contradiction. If I wanted to put my sins on Jesus and let him carry my cross (as it doesn't say unless Jesus was contradicting himself) I'd have to believe he is one with the father. I do not agree that anyone can be one with a creator (if I believed in one). It's an insult to the creator to have a human (since Christianity sees humans as just flesh) to be likened to the creator. That's why I left. I don't agree with this. We should be one with god as jesus not below him.
4. Christianity's history. I do not believe in killing in any fashion for any reason. It's not a part of my morals whether someone dies for me or someone kills millions because they aren't christian. It tarnishes the very nature of Jesus' actual message. How can you do until others or treat your neighbors as yourself if you are constantly killing them by word and/or by sword? Using the Bible to defend your beliefs as a sword. That's a total insult.
5. Christianity isn't about Jesus. It's about what the apostles wrote about him. If my mother passed away and the only way I knew her was through my siblings, then that is fine. However, I have no blood relations with my mother's friends; so, that connection of knowing her through her friends is different. Likewise with Jesus. The apostles aren't related to me. The connection is completely different.
Among other reasons.
Do I feel differently about Jesus?
No. I believe spirits exist, he is no exception. I believe the Eucharist is Jesus; that hasn't changed. I believe the body of Christ are his Church--the people; that hasn't changed.
What I view differently (and not mainstream) is Jesus is not god. The Eucharist is the core of the Christian faith. You can't be a solo Christian. Jesus is not the Bible.
Edit that's right. To be a mainstream Christian, I'd have to believe in a deity/entity as god rather than god as life. I'd have to believe he can do things like love and hate etc. Since I do not believe Jesus' father existed, how and why can and would I believe in Christ?
HonestJoe
Well-Known Member
You present it as if it's some kind of default that we have to actively choose to refuse. You should be asking what Christianity has done (or not done) to turn away from us.
Personally, the fact I don't believe in any gods if fairly significant (though some Christians suggest that isn't the requirement you might expect). In general though no form of Christianity (or any other religion) offers me anything positive that I can't get elsewhere.
Completely. I'm not convinced modern Christianity actually have very much to do with Jesus. To me he's just a historical figure with very little clarity about his actual life.
This question makes several assumptions ... that we know what Christianity was, and secondly, that Jesus existed. Personally, I know that Christianity exists, but I don't know that Jesus existed or not. That sort of history isn't verifiable either way.
Nothing turned me away from Christianity, just as Christians would say nothing turned them away from Buddhism, etc. Fact is I've never looked at it. Don't feel the need. The little bit I have seen isn't enough to catch my attention.