What "supporting traditional families" really means.

[J Bryson]

It becomes their business the moment you want to deny them some of their basic citizen rights.

Or, for that matter, once you hold them up to scrutiny by posting them on a discussion thread in a public online forum.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Because you live in a society ( are group of people, families) you are bound by will of the majority, by their definitions, when something is defined by the majority that is what it is, in countries like our where government rule by the will of the majority, they seek to know what that will is through referendums, Christian express their points of view and if they are the majority, that the way thing are, if the will of the majority is that marriage is between a man and a woman that is what it is.

That's not the society I live in. What your describing is a simple Democracy and the United States is a Representative Republic. The two are very different things.

Athenian democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Representative democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thankfully we don't have to bow down to the will of the majority.

 

[DallasApple]

Just because a marriage is between a man and a woman..doesnt mean a marriage isnt between a man and a man or a woman and a woman.

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Oh and in reverse..Just because a marriage is between a man and a man or a woman and a woman ..doesnt mean a marriage isnt between a man and a woman.

Love

Dallas

 

[Kathryn]

Nope. It doesn't matter if 90% of Americans want to kill me; the Constitution protects them from doing it. Good system, IMO.

Well, regardless, it's a good thing that 90% of Americans don't want to kill you. I doubt if .009 want to kill you. Or me either, for that matter.

Yep, in spite of our flaws, we have a pretty good system of government here.

 

[J Bryson]

Well, regardless, it's a good thing that 90% of Americans don't want to kill you. I doubt if .009 want to kill you. Or me either, for that matter.

Yep, in spite of our flaws, we have a pretty good system of government here.

Agreed. One of the nice things about it is that it keeps a few principles sacred, and allows the rest to evolve.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

The Catholic Church is the last bastion of sound doctrine ...

In regards to what?

 

[J Bryson]

In regards to what?

Catholicism, maybe?

 

[Autodidact]

Well, regardless, it's a good thing that 90% of Americans don't want to kill you. I doubt if .009 want to kill you. Or me either, for that matter.

Yep, in spite of our flaws, we have a pretty good system of government here.

I was going to say that no one wants to kill me, but then I remembered the Christian Identity Movement, as well as the Westboro Baptist Church. Still, it's a tiny percentage.

 

[Kathryn]

LOL, you may be right - but you're in good company because they probably want to kill me too - and I'm excellent company.

Heh!

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

Generally speaking, I am in agreement with the mood of this thread. Now I do think that some of the things advocated in the gay rights movement are, in my understanding, incorrect- though I don't think that homosexuals themselves are the primary sources of these errors (e.g. much has happened in our culture to prepare the way for means of artificial family construction that I find immoral or questionable). Also, some things regarding what is classified as hate speech and other excessive governing of language (Yet, this pales in comparison to the way gay people have been treated and often still are). Nor do I understand it to be possible for there to be a such thing as homosexual marriage in the Catholic, sacramental meaning of the word. But I don't accept the rhetoric of my religious leaders that same-sex legally sanctioned unions are somehow tearing apart the fabric of our society- or are destined to do so. I think very different forces are responsible for that, for which we are all responsible in some way.

That being said, I have always maintained that what we really need is not some rapid focus on the nuclear family- which in some ways might be part of the problem of an excessively atomized society- but a call towards constructing larger families (through blood relations or friendships) and more involved, proximate and intimate relationships which can provide the mother and father with a network of support that is not a day-care center, not a school, not an institution.

I fully support adoption by same-sex couples for the very reason that it rescues children from living in destabilized environments or lives marked by institutionalization and bureaucracy.

I understand all of the above to be very "pro-family".

 

[J Bryson]

I understand all of the above to be very "pro-family".

And pro-frubals.

 

[Kathryn]

Yes, Jordan St Francis - I believe you about sum up my own personal beliefs on the matter as well. FRUBALS!

 

[emiliano]

I'd bet dollars to donuts that when push comes to shove, the majority of people in Australia or US would say that the Catholic Church does not follow the teachings of God. Some of them because they're non-Christian theists, some because they're Protestants. If the majority opinion is all that matters, what should we do with that little detail?

Craiky! Here we go again the goal post is on the move. What possible diference can this make to the discussion subject at hand? I know of the bickering that protestant and Catholic have had for centuries, this of course include the concept of what a traditional family is and the Catholic to their credit have not changed Christianity’s tenets in order to increase their membership, they and the majority of Christian are standing firm in the defense of the sanctity of marriage and life. Now there are other minorities of smaller newly founded churches that have even ordained gay priest and founded gay’s churches, the uniting church is an example and has given them some success, the question is. What have they succeeded in? Another is universalism that joined forces with Unitarians and also achieves some growth in membership. But the mission of the Church is to guide people to repentance and salvation, telling people that it does mater what you do, what kind of life you live isn’t going to make it happen. So really this last effort of your is pretty lame.

 

[emiliano]

emiliano, I realize that you're responding to about ten people at once whenever you click this thread, but I'm curious about your reaction to my statement that Jesus himself did not follow Levitical law, and did not require his followers to do so, either.

I went back to your question and will try to respond it I am encouraged by the fact that you get the holy trinity I’ll direct you to the scriptures that answers it and let you to work it out.
Originally Posted by Leviticus
'3 For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the LORD in all your dwellings.

And what was the punishment for such a thing?

Lev 23:30
And any person who does any work on that same day, that person I will destroy from among his people. ​

This is excommunication, right?
To whom is this commandment given?

Lev 23:31
You shall do no manner of work; [it shall be] a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. ​

To the Hebrew that Moses brought out of Egypt, right?
What was to be done and for how long?

Lev 23:32
It [shall be] to you a sabbath of [solemn] rest, and you shall afflict your souls; on the ninth [day] of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your sabbath." ​

Now I direct you to what Jesus and the new covenant is:

Mar 2:27
And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
Mat 12:8
For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath." ​

We Christians are under a new covenant a covenant of Grace (unmerited favor)

Mat 26:28
For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. ​

I appreciate that you realize that I have to select the post that I respond to and hope that this one answers your question.

 

[Autodidact]

Interesting to see a spectrum of Catholic responses.

 

[emiliano]

That's not the society I live in. What your describing is a simple Democracy and the United States is a Representative Republic. The two are very different things.

Athenian democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Representative democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thankfully we don't have to bow down to the will of the majority.

The principle is the same and is opposite to direct governance, the people elect representatives that take the common will (the majority will) to a bigger assembly and in the case of referendums the majority will rules. Minorities are listened to, not obey.

 

[emiliano]

In regards to what?

Whatever happened to "I hope you don't take offense, as people decide to isolate themselves from yourself and the other undesirable bigots as time goes by"
I am sooooo glad that have not isolated yourself from me.:sarcastic
The RCC is one of the faithful Churches that stay strong in defense of the sanctity of marriage and life.

 

[McBell]

The RCC is one of the faithful Churches that stay strong in defense of the sanctity of marriage and life.

Interesting how so many people will jump up and down, hoot and holler, scream bloody murder, petition the government to enact laws, to protect the "sanctity" of marriage from same sex couples, but say hardly a word one about protecting the "sanctity" of marriage from divorce....

Sounds like a big bunch of sanctimonious BS to me.

 

[J Bryson]

I went back to your question and will try to respond it I am encouraged by the fact that you get the holy trinity I’ll direct you to the scriptures that answers it and let you to work it out.
Originally Posted by Leviticus
'3 For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the LORD in all your dwellings.

And what was the punishment for such a thing?

Lev 23:30
And any person who does any work on that same day, that person I will destroy from among his people. ​

This is excommunication, right?
To whom is this commandment given?

Lev 23:31
You shall do no manner of work; [it shall be] a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. ​

To the Hebrew that Moses brought out of Egypt, right?
What was to be done and for how long?

Lev 23:32
It [shall be] to you a sabbath of [solemn] rest, and you shall afflict your souls; on the ninth [day] of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your sabbath." ​

Now I direct you to what Jesus and the new covenant is:

Mar 2:27
And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
Mat 12:8
For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath." ​

We Christians are under a new covenant a covenant of Grace (unmerited favor)

Mat 26:28
For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. ​

I appreciate that you realize that I have to select the post that I respond to and hope that this one answers your question.

Exactly! And what did this bringer of the new covenant have to say about homosexuality?