What sounds more accurate to your belief as a pantheist

[The Sum of Awe]

Everything is God
Or God is everything?

These are actually two different ideas. The difference between God portraying as the universe and the universe portraying as God.

 

[George-ananda]

The difference between God portraying as the universe and the universe portraying as God.

I'll go with 'God portraying as the universe'.

 

[idav]

All is god and god simply is.

 

[Ouroboros]

Both.

 

[idav]

Both.

One is and the other is becoming, unfolding.

 

[BSM1]

Everything is God (or whatever deity term you wish to use), even this conversation. Doesn't mean we don't possess a certain latitude and ability to "swim freely" in this environment.

 

[Father Heathen]

No, saying A = B is not different from saying B = A if they're one and the same.

 

[Quintessence]

I would characterize it as neither.

I reject the notion that one can be talking about "everything" and "gods" as if they were two distinct things.

 

[Ouroboros]

One is and the other is becoming, unfolding.

And both are true.

 

[Goblin]

however you wanna say it. it just is

 

[idav]

And both are true.

Maybe but i feel that for god things dont really change the same as it does for us, not so much unfokding to do. God is already there, in future past and present

 

[Kirran]

Ultimately, I would say both. But with the proviso that when one is saying everything is God, one is saying that each and every thing is God. In other words, each object within our perception is itself God in God's entirety.

 

[Willamena]

Everything is God
Or God is everything?

These are actually two different ideas. The difference between God portraying as the universe and the universe portraying as God.

That difference is why the better description is: God does not differ from all.

 

[Ouroboros]

Maybe but i feel that for god things dont really change the same as it does for us, not so much unfokding to do. God is already there, in future past and present

But we're part of God. We are God experiencing him/her/itself. If God is only "that" but not "this" then God is not everything.

The identity God:Everything goes both ways.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Everything is God
Or God is everything?

These are actually two different ideas. The difference between God portraying as the universe and the universe portraying as God.

My problem here is the use of the term "God," with a capital G, which denotes different things to different people, and to me is an abstraction of reality, as it implies a universal monotheistic deity, which could be immanent or transcendent, or both--and I just don't do that anymore, as it's simply beyond my comprehension.

And then, I don't get your distinction between "God portraying as the universe and the universe portraying as God."

Replacing the troublesome word with one that is much more acceptable to me gives:
Everything is spirits; spirits is everything, which to your form would be "spirits portraying as the universe," versus "the universe portraying as spirits." I still don't get what you're asking. Sorry.

To me, Spirits are immanent in everything; everything (and I do mean everything) is/has spirit--and all of them together are the universe, but that doesn't necessarily entail (although it is one possibility, one that cannot be proven or tested) that all are one entity, or that they "add up" to something larger and coherent, such as God.

 

[Ouroboros]

My problem here is the use of the term "God," with a capital G, which denotes different things to different people, and to me is an abstraction of reality, as it implies a universal monotheistic deity, which could be immanent or transcendent, or both--and I just don't do that anymore, as it's simply beyond my comprehension.

Or...

Perhaps the explanation is that this is the DIR for pantheists and panentheists so the problem of what they consider to be God (with capital G) isn't so confusing.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Everything is God
Or God is everything?

These are actually two different ideas. The difference between God portraying as the universe and the universe portraying as God.

Everything is God...I think. Do we have free will though?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Or...

Perhaps the explanation is that this is the DIR for pantheists and panentheists so the problem of what they consider to be God (with capital G) isn't so confusing.

When I was still a monotheist, I was definitely a panentheist; now that I have abandoned that monotheistic perspective, I am not certain whether or not my beliefs fit these categories. As I am trying to figure out whether or not the terms can and/or should be applied to my belief system, I asked so as to get help in my quest, from people who should have some perspective about it. If my post came off as disrespectful or otherwise out of line, I apologize; however, I was posting in a sincere effort to understand what others might think about my quandary from this perspective.

 

[Ouroboros]

When I was still a monotheist, I was definitely a panentheist; now that I have abandoned that monotheistic perspective, I am not certain whether or not my beliefs fit these categories. As I am trying to figure out whether or not the terms can and/or should be applied to my belief system, I asked so as to get help in my quest, from people who should have some perspective about it. If my post came off as disrespectful or otherwise out of line, I apologize; however, I was posting in a sincere effort to understand what others might think about my quandary from this perspective.

Life is a process. A process of searching for the Truth by finding truths on the way. No one is at the final destination. Many get stuck at one spot and won't move, but others keep on moving and find new things to see. You're one (like me) who doesn't feel content staying at one place but continue to see new sceneries in life. It's not a matter of where you are. It's a matter of that you're still moving.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Life is a process. A process of searching for the Truth by finding truths on the way. No one is at the final destination. Many get stuck at one spot and won't move, but others keep on moving and find new things to see. You're one (like me) who doesn't feel content staying at one place but continue to see new sceneries in life. It's not a matter of where you are. It's a matter of that you're still moving.

Every morning when I arise, to make sure I'm still alive and kicking, I do something like stub my toe or slop coffee on my hand, just to make sure.
Yep! Still moving. Glad to hear you're among the living, too.

Now then, about my quandary: I seem to today be a non-theist because, while I recognize the possibility of a universal or sub-universal deity or deities, I do not have a position on whether or not they actually exist. At the same time, I believe that everything is spirit, that spirit is immanent in what we conceive of the "universe," and quite possibly "beyond" or "outside" of that--although that for me is an abstraction of a reality I just can't comprehend. This position is comparable to pantheism, and panentheism--although I don't recognize spirit as necessarily being deity, thus the "theism" part doesn't apply--I don't think. Thoughts or suggestions?

Maybe this should be in a separate thread, and maybe in a different DIR, but this OP triggered this, so....