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Featured What Part of Us Survives Temporal Death?

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by SalixIncendium, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    A member posted a thread here with a link to the following article which suggests that consciousness may not be what drives the human mind; that our actions are driven by a mechanism in our subconscious which creates the personal narrative.

    What if consciousness is not what drives the human mind?

    I found reading this article left me pondering about what part of us survives temporal death. Many call the immortal part of us the soul, the spirit, consciousness, etc. But what part of us here on earth carries on after the body and brain dies?

    Regardless of what you believe, that if your soul is judged for life's actions and you go to Heaven, or if your consciousness experiences a cycle of rebirths to achieve liberation and release from this cycle, considering the above scientific hypothesis, and knowing that we, as a whole, do not survive temporal death, what part of us continues on?

    For those of you that believe that one's soul continues on after temporal death, what part of one's consciousness continues on to the afterlife? Does one remember all that was experienced and one's mind continues into the afterlife completely intact, or is the part of us that is responsible for one's actions, vis-a-vis one's personal narrative, lost and one only retains what is learned in one's experience on earth?

    Those of you that believe in a cycle of rebirths, what is the reason one doesn't remember details from last incarnations even though a part of one (I'll call this 'consciousness' for the purpose of this thread) has experienced them? After reading the linked article, I am considering the possibility that the mechanism contained in the subconsciousness, the one which is the personal narrative contained in the brain and that part of us is lost in temporal death, but the experiences themselves are retained in the consciousness, which survives temporal death, but are not remembered in specifics, but in general wisdom and/or knowledge. If you believe in the cycle of rebirth, what are your thoughts on this?
     
  2. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    The part not made of flesh.
     
  3. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    My personal view is that we are privy to rebirth. I call it an educated guess rather than a belief but it suffices well enough for me personally given that we are born, the eyes opened up, and life is experienced.

    I figure with a degree of confidence if it happend "once" it will potentially happen again at some point once conditions are right for life to erupt

    I don't think we have souls or anything transitory or static that travels per say.

    Rebirth is metaphorically akin with transferring a candle flame from one to another. It's the same flame, whole and interrelated but it's also not the same flame. It can be transferred by another lit candle or blowing the candle out and extinguishing the flame, and lighting it again from another source. You can destroy the candle, melted down or whatever. The form dies, losing its "flame-ness" and "candle-ness" but essence is still there by which a candle was formed and the flame lit.

    We are atomic in nature for which our atoms come together and they fall apart in many various ways. Form gets destroyed by which our "human-ness" gets destroyed, but not our composition by which things like this come about.

    There is a true perma death to our ego, but I take it we are in a continuum, by which forms rise and fall and includes life as we know It.

    I remembered a dharma talk where the quip, "Into the coffin, out of the coffin" gave me a strange sense of reassurance.
     
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  4. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    So bones, fingernails, hair, and cartilage, then?
     
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  5. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    What part of us, in your opinion, from a scientific standpoint, is that flame or essence of that flame? Do you think that science is getting any closer to its discovery? Or can it never be known by science?
     
  6. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    None of that survives and neither does the brain or blood. So if a man is nothing but a mind none of him survives. Other than that who can say, it's just ghost stories. But scripture being the Word of God who created us and gave us life would know. So scripture says we will resurrected the righteous and the wicked. The righteous who believe in Jesus will be given a clean slate and a new name, the rest may not be so lucky and their sins could survive for eternity. Those who do not recognize they are sinners may not seek the Lord for forgiveness of their sins, And therefore lie in the bed which they made. Their sins surviving in a world where every one of those sins are known, This becomes their hell. But the sins of the righteous do not survive, because they repented and sought the Lord.
     
  7. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    I'm familiar with Scripture and I get that. But my question isn't whether or not resurrection will occur. My question is: What part of you is resurrected?
     
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  8. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    What part of a house survives when it gets demolished? A footprint left by the house, the memory of the house and the "idea"/"soul" of it. If that's what we have, we are already one part eternity.
     
  9. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    Where is that memory contained? What exactly is the "idea"/"soul?" Where does that concept live?
     
  10. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Of your mortal flesh? None of it. Your spirit, the part that sleeps is woke up from it's dirt nap. So the important part is what does it wake up to, what is resurrected with it. Isn't what is known of you a part of you? Eternal life with your sins remembered..resurrected with you or eternal life with your sins forgotten, resurrected without them.
     
  11. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    From your posts here, I'm not very confident that you read the OP in its entirety or at all. It appears you just read the title and responded.

    What part of you is it that that survives temporal death and remembers?
     
  12. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    The life that is in you.
     
  13. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    What is this "life" composed of? In what part of you is it contained?
     
  14. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    How should I know. But when you die it leaves your body behind. Scripture only says the "life is in the blood" which may only mean in the blood of Jesus. Or it could also mean the life is in the blood, since when Cain killed Abel his spilt blood cried out to the Lord. Who knows. Science doesn't know where the life goes when it leaves the body.
     
  15. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
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    The article about consciousness was interesting, although it still suggest that whatever it is that drives human consciousness is still self-contained within the body. Once the body dies, then consciousness also dies. If there's some "part" that continues on after the body dies, my question would not be "which part?" Instead, I would ask: How does this "part" (whatever it is) actually leave the body and travel to some other place?

    Many years ago when I was working in the funeral business, I would think about this. I recall one instance where a caregiver for a lady who passed away was calling to report the death and arrange for pick up of the body. But she wanted us to wait a few hours to give the lady's soul time to leave the body. I didn't really understand where she got this from, since my understanding was that the soul leaves the body at the exact moment of death. Even if the soul hangs out for a little while inside a dead body, why would transporting the body to the mortuary somehow interfere with the "exiting" of the soul from that body?

    I would also note that religions have very particular rules about how a body is to be handled and treated after death, even though it's viewed as nothing more than a husk - a temporary residence for the "soul" which is supposedly immortal and far more important than the body itself. Some religions forbid cremation or embalming, but why should any of that even matter?
     
  16. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    What I think is that we are all part of an eternal, huge network of meaning, a high dimensional geometric form that has parts which are connected not just through time and space but other directions. I think we are not the dreaming of some consciousness (due to the order in our existence, causality and so forth) but a part of a form somewhat like Plato's forms except that we are the real thing not shadow. Plato thinks that we are all copies of perfect forms, but I think he's mistaken about that. He's just obsessed with the idea of perfection, because he's hoping to find magic formulas to make golems and medicines and gold. He wants to simplify the world, but it can never be simplified. I think it is possible that there are other such networks of meaning with which ours does not interact but which may have some similarities, but these and ours never touch. In our network of meaning each 'Person' is like a leaf on a tree, however the appearance of any such being is merely like looking at a small part of the whole. This is where my idea crosses reincarnation but is not the same. I think the Rastafarians have a very interesting saying when they say to each other "I and I" which is like saying "You are me" which is more real than most people expect. In other words when I speak to you, I am speaking to myself in another life. So not just my life and your life is eternal but the relationship between us, the entirety. If I meet you and shoot you on a battlefield I am shooting myself. It may not seem that way, because we tend to think of ourselves as individuals. In this universe which is a network of meaning however, none of us is actually not the other. There is something about us, too, in that we can represent ideas in our minds. This is possible as part of our experience of time. That space of meaning in our minds, the things we imagine, may actually correspond to events in other spaces which are as real as our own though unconnected with ours. Thus it is possible (though its all just a curiosity) that we ought to be careful what we think, as it may in fact be a creative process affecting someone else's existence and a network of meaning that is less orderly than the one we are part of. Our orderly universe does not necessarily mean that every universe is orderly, and while ours is not a shadow there may be shadows of it full of disorder.
     
  17. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    The memory is with those who knew the person. Ideas and souls exist on a mental plane of possibilities. Whether it's alive somewhere, I don't know, but it's still there.
     
  18. WalterTrull

    WalterTrull Godfella

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    Wouldn't it be great if we actually knew? On second thought, maybe not.
     
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  19. idav

    idav Being
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    My belief is that ghosts are fingerprints we leave in the temporal world. That it all survives because time is an illusion. I think science is suggesting space and time are intertwined, so that could mean that when we poke at the line of space/time it's toward a common center. As if the universe uses space time so the expansion never happened. I don't know if you've seen Interstellar, exactly like that.
     
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  20. Hawkins

    Hawkins Well-Known Member

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    Our science is experiment based. Soul as an advocate doesn't lie on our physical time-space. Thus under the hypothesis that soul can work cooperatively with our physical brain, we have the tool to examine this advocate, as it's beyond the reach of our science.
     
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