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What or Who is Babylon the Great?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by ThisShouldMakeSense, Jun 9, 2005.

  1. ThisShouldMakeSense

    ThisShouldMakeSense Active Member

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    Yet another fun debate!
    I'd like to know what you guys think Babylon The Great is.

    Revelation 17:5*(New King James Version)

    And on her forehead a name was written:
    ****** MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

    Is it a person, a place, an organisation, a country, a beleif etc, etc...please discuss. Ta!
     
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  2. njcl

    njcl Active Member

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    i would say its a continent or a country with great power where things like buisness,economical and earthly wealth are numerous,also if we look at the world as wicked as a whole then it could be anywhere
     
  3. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Everyone agrees that the book of Revelation predicts the fall of Babylon; what they do not agree upon is the identity of Babylon. Some say it is Rome, Roman Catholicism, a modern day world-wide church, or apostate Christianity as a whole. One thing is certain, the interpretation of Revelation and thus much of the Bible, hinges upon who Babylon is or was. In Revelation the coming of Christ, the New Creation, judgment and resurrection are associated with the fall of Babylon. To mistakenly identify Babylon is to incorrectly interpret these issues. Whatever one makes Babylon to be these issues are inextricably linked with her fall! Can we identify Babylon? Yes indeed!

    Revelation 16:6; 17:1-6; 18:20, 24 tell us that Babylon was drunk with the blood of the prophets. This is a critical point! The term "the prophets" appears 88 times in the New Testament. The overwhelmingly normal usage of the term refers to Old Testament prophets.

    Now the city of Rome, the Roman Catholic church, apostate Christianity, nor any modern world-wide church ever persecuted Old Testament prophets! But Babylon of Revelation did, therefore none of these can be identified as Babylon; it is just that simple! What city persecuted the Old Testament prophets and filled the Cup of her Sin by so doing? It was Jerusalem.

    Comparing Matthew 23 with Revelation plainly reveals this. In Matthew 23:31 Jesus said it was Jerusalem that had killed the prophets; in Revelation it is Babylon. In Matthew 23:32 Jesus said the Jews were about to fill the cup of their sin by continuing to persecute those sent to her; in Revelation 17 Babylon has filled her cup by persecuting not only the prophets of old but the followers of Jesus as well, 17:6. In Matthew 23:35 Jesus said Jerusalem was guilty of "all the blood shed on the earth," 23:35; in Revelation 18:24 Babylon bears the guilt for "all the blood shed on the earth." In Matthew 23:36 Jesus said judgment on Jerusalem for killing the prophets would come in his generation; in Revelation Jesus said "Behold, I come quickly" 22:6, 10, 12, 20. Such parallels are not accidental!

    Finally, the Great City Babylon is "spiritually called Sodom," Rev. 11:8; and the only city in the Bible--other than historical Sodom--that is ever called Sodom is Jerusalem, Isaiah 1:10; Jer. 23:14, Ezek. 16:44f. Babylon is also "where the Lord was crucified" Rev. 11:8. Jesus was not crucified in Rome, or by the Catholic church; Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem!

    Source:-http://www.preteristarchive.com/Preterism/preston-don_p_03.html:)
     
  4. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Babylon the great is the world empire of false religion, and christendom as a whole, ( not true christianity)has a large part to play in that , because she claims to represent the God of the bible and she will be destroyed because of her false beliefsthat all stem from babylon of old
     
  5. almifkhar

    almifkhar Active Member

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    i have often pondered this one myself. me i think it is the u.s.a. she was great once apon a time and she is gona fall and fall hard. i useto think that perhaps it was like one said before christedom as a whole in paticular the vatican which i believe is on its way out real soon too. but i think that it is more political because politics and greed in politics are what really corrupts the world and it influences the entire planet. the bond with nations is business and politics not religon. and in our day and age, business is not done honestly neither in paticular political business this is where our corruption now stems from. perhaps i am wrong but this is what i think and thought i would share. i must admit i never thought of jeruslem as the babylon the great and even that makes sense considering all the corruption there and the golbal impact that goes along with it. hmmmm i will have to look around for it and see if there is a connection.
     
  6. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    notice that this woman (Babylon the great) is sitting upon a scarlet colored wild beast thats full of blasphemous names with seven heads and ten horns ...rev 17;3 this beast is FULL of blasphemous names.this beast pictures the League of Nations organization that the two-horned wild beast brought to life in 1920.....rev 13;14-15.its purpose was to maintain international peace and sucurity ,this is blasphemy because this idol is a substitue for the Kingdom of God , and only Gods kingdom can acomplish true peace ...daniel 2;44 and the fact that this woman (babylon the great)is riding the scarlet colored wild beast means she has linked herself with it. the churches have made the false claim that the league of nations and its successor the united nations is the political expression of the Kingom of God on earth . this is blasphemy because only Gods kingdom which was born in the heavens in 1914 can bring true peace so babylon is misleading people in all sorts of ways
     
  7. njcl

    njcl Active Member

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    i recall the ten horns also which could indicate the european union although i know theres more than 10 countries attatched at the moment
     
  8. Ori

    Ori Angel slayer

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    Statue of liberty?
     
  9. njcl

    njcl Active Member

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    has its crown got 10 horns??
     
  10. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    The ten horns depict all the political powers that presently hold sway on the world scene and that support the image of the wild beast

    Ten is a number denoting fullness, entirety,





     
  11. njcl

    njcl Active Member

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    can you prove or clarify that ten is a number of entirity,iv never heard or read that before
     
  12. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    the numbers inthe bible may be either literal or symbolic. The context usually reveals in which sense a number is used. Certain numbers appear often in the Bible in an illustrative, figurative, or symbolic sense, and in such cases an understanding of their significance is vital to an understanding of the text.in the book of revelation it is highly symbolic

    Jesus used the number ten in several of his illustrations to denote entirety or the full number of something.—Mt 25:1; Lu 15:8; 19:13, 16, 17

    The fullness of the test or period of test that God determines for his servants or allows them to undergo is expressed at Revelation 2:10: "Do not be afraid of the things you are about to suffer. Look! The Devil will keep on throwing some of you into prison that you may be fully put to the test, and that you may have tribulation ten days......so this is not a litral ten days but again is symbolic of the entirety of it

     
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  13. almifkhar

    almifkhar Active Member

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    pehaps we are all right to a point. we should put all of these ideas together and see what we come up with. i am sure it would be quite intresting.

    here we go according to the bible
    7 heads which represent 7 hills apon which the woman sits
    they are also 7 kings, 5 have fallen, 1is, the other has not yet come, but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. the beast who once was, and now is not, is an 8th. king. he belongs to the 7 and is going to his destruction.
    the 10 horns are 10 kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for 1 hour will receive authority as kings along with teh beast. they have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. they will make war against the lamb, but the lamb will overcome.
    the waters where the whore sits are peoles, multitudes, nations, and languages.
    the beast will hate the whore and bring her to ruin and leave her naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
    the woman is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.

    see perhaps we are all on the same page here just with different parts of the mystery.
     
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  14. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    As prophesied about the scarlet-colored wild beast, the League of Nations was abyssed during world war 2 but was revived as the United Nations

    The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction. (revelation 17;8)so babylon the great is linked with this beast because she puts her trust in it instead of the true kingdom of God . this is blasphemy.The UN does not have the answers ,and why? because its not by human means but through the kingdom of Godthat peace will come thats why it will go off into destructionThe UN is actually a blasphemous counterfeit of Gods messianic kingdom by his prince of peace ,Jesus Christ- to whose princely rule there will be no end (Isaiah 9; 6,7.

     
  15. njcl

    njcl Active Member

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    edited,i was way off
     
  16. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    hi there. not sure which verses you are refering to , sometimes it can be a bit confusing because in revelation there is the wild beast ,and the image of the wild beast
     
  17. njcl

    njcl Active Member

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    not really a verse just a mismash of what iv read,as said i really need to read revelations closely
     
  18. njcl

    njcl Active Member

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    i have just had a quick scan through revelations,i was miles off with my assumptions,still its very mysterious
     
  19. Ori

    Ori Angel slayer

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    Well you could always bear in mind that their will never be an end time.
     
  20. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    well according to the bible there will be an end to Babylon the great
    And I heard another voice out of heaven say: "Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. 6 Render to her even as she herself rendered, and do to her twice as much, yes, twice the number of the things she did; in the cup in which she put a mixture put twice as much of the mixture for her. 7 To the extent that she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury, to that extent give her torment and mourning. For in her heart she keeps saying, ‘I sit a queen, and I am no widow, and I shall never see mourning.’ 8 That is why in one day her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire, because Jehovah God, who judged her, is strong.(revelation 18;5-8)

     
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