What morals and ethics do Christians and other religions follow over time?

[shunyadragon]

Gave it to you, as I said, the entire timeline and details of these inscriptions can be found on the BYU website.

You aren't able to find it?

Please provide the link. As far as a link all I see is link in Wikipedia provided by @IndigoChild5559

. . . which I provided a detailed response with references. I am awaiting a response from him.

Hint 'El' is one of the Canaanite Gods in Canaanite writings older than any Hebrew reference.

Still waiting . . .

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Please provide the link. As far as a link all I see is link in Wikipedia provided by @IndigoChild5559

. . . which I provided a detailed response with references. I am awaiting a response from him.

Hint 'El' is one of the Canaanite Gods in Canaanite writings older than any Hebrew reference.

Still waiting . . .

And Rebbe?

 

[Quiddity]

It’s an untenable proposition [for most of Christendom at least] to say morality/ethics evolved inasmuch as a thing became another thing.

It’s an important distinction.

Things develop, become clearer, etc. but not change to become something else entirely.

 

[shunyadragon]

And Rebbe?

And Rebbe? This is a clear stretch of interpretation beyond all imagination for etchings that old. The proto-Sinaitic symbols are clearly far more ancient then any version of Hebrew known. It is by the evidence that the interpretation of the etchings is closer to the hieroglyphic symbols, by your reference. It is reasonably well documented the Hebrew evolved from Canaanite and other earlier Sinaitic writing. Even primitive Hebrew dates to not much older than ~1000 to 1200 BCE. Of course, you can interpret early origins of Hebrew alphabet to more ancient origins, but the Egyptian etchings cannot be traced directly to Hebrew.

The possible interpretation of referring to a 'chief God,' priest, and sacrifice in 4000 BCE in Egypt in primitive proto- Sinaitic Egyptian religious hieroglyphics etchings, does not translate to Hebrew religious terminology except that Hebrews developed there alphabet from more ancient alphabets which in reality is what the evidence indicates.

Again note: Note from an earlier reference that later languages that evolved from these early proto- Sinaitic symbols; They are Semitic Canaanite languages included Amorite, Edomite, Hebrew, Ammonite, Moabite, Phoenician (Punic/Carthaginian), Samaritan Hebrew, Ekronite and Sutean.

From your reference: Proto-Sinaitic script - Wikipedia

Proto-Canaanite
Main articles: Paleo-Hebrew alphabet and Phoenician alphabet
Proto-Canaanite, also referred to as Proto-Canaan, Old Canaanite, or Canaanite,[1] is the name given to the Proto-Sinaitic script (c. 16th century BC), when found in Canaan.[16][17][18][13]

The term Proto-Canaanite is also used when referring to the ancestor of the Phoenician or Paleo-Hebrew script, respectively, before some cut-off date, typically 1050 BC, with an undefined affinity to Proto-Sinaitic.[19] While no extant inscription in the Phoenician alphabet is older than c. 1050 BC,[20] "Proto-Canaanite" is a term used for the early alphabets as used during the 13th and 12th centuries BC in Phoenicia.[21] However, the Phoenician, Hebrew, and other Canaanite dialects were largely indistinguishable before the 11th century BC.[7] A possible example of "Proto-Canaanite" was found in 2012, the Ophel inscription, was found on a pottery storage jar during the excavations of the south wall of the Temple Mount by the Israeli archaeologist Eilat Mazar in Jerusalem. Inscribed on the pot are some big letters about an inch high, of which only five are complete, and traces of perhaps three additional letters written in Proto-Canaanite script.[17]

Proto-Canaanite
Main articles: Paleo-Hebrew alphabet and Phoenician alphabet
Proto-Canaanite, also referred to as Proto-Canaan, Old Canaanite, or Canaanite,[1] is the name given to the Proto-Sinaitic script (c. 16th century BC), when found in Canaan.[16][17][18][13]

The term Proto-Canaanite is also used when referring to the ancestor of the Phoenician or Paleo-Hebrew script, respectively, before some cut-off date, typically 1050 BC, with an undefined affinity to Proto-Sinaitic.[19] While no extant inscription in the Phoenician alphabet is older than c. 1050 BC,[20] "Proto-Canaanite" is a term used for the early alphabets as used during the 13th and 12th centuries BC in Phoenicia.[21] However, the Phoenician, Hebrew, and other Canaanite dialects were largely indistinguishable before the 11th century BC.[7] A possible example of "Proto-Canaanite" was found in 2012, the Ophel inscription, was found on a pottery storage jar during the excavations of the south wall of the Temple Mount by the Israeli archaeologist Eilat Mazar in Jerusalem. Inscribed on the pot are some big letters about an inch high, of which only five are complete, and traces of perhaps three additional letters written in Proto-Canaanite script.[17]

The table in your reference shows the evolution of written characters of all other ancient cultures alphabets evolved from the Egyptian primitive hieroglyphics which most closely resemble later Egyptian hieroglyphics.

 

[shunyadragon]

It’s an untenable proposition [for most of Christendom at least] to say morality/ethics evolved inasmuch as a thing became another thing.

It’s an important distinction.

Things develop, become clearer, etc. but not change to become something else entirely.

Morals and ethics evolve, but not in the way 'one thing becomes another.'

 

[shunyadragon]

Gave them to you, gave you where you could go to learn something on the issue. You have chosen not to.

You did not give it to me, but I did some search on BYU and the Proto-Sinaitic inscriptions and alphabets, and yes they have a large reference discussing the subject, but they do not reach the conclusions you make.

They review the finds of different inscriptions, various possible translations, and the different ancient cultures that use similar alphabets, and how they evolved over time. It describes what symbols were possibly used for the different Gods of the different cultures all over the Middle East. The symbols used in the evolution of the Hebrew language used the same symbols as other cultures used for one of their Gods such as the Egyptians, Canaanites and Phoenicians. This represents the evolution of written languages for Middle East cultures far older than the Hebrew language, and it is obvious they all had variations to who their God or Gods were. This tribal and Kingdom wars proclaiming my God(s) are the true God(s) grater than your God(s).

 

[Hawkins]

God does two jobs basically.

1) He provides a foundation for all humans the same. His Law is written to each and every single human's heart the same so that he will be judged the same in the Final Judgment. That's the origin of our conscience and moral code.
Humans on the other hand, hammer their own moral code as time goes by. The analogy is like a pizza, God provides the bread part while humans add the toppings in accordance to their own favor.
Humans' moral code are altered in several ways after God provided the foundation. Satan and his horde work on humans even when they are still in their mother's womb. This gradually will form a culture of a society which in turn further alters the average moral code of a society. Parental education becomes another crucial factor on affecting the forming of one's final version of moral code. Formal education serves yet another factor, as in today's world formal education starts in everyone's early childhood.

2) God is to set up a covenant to identify the righteous from the wicked.
Slavery serves a positive mean for the assessment of one's obedience. God let go it because along the timeline of humanity even the most moral and decent humans practiced slavery. God's job is not to work against their will, His job is to set up a covenant such that the righteous can be told apart from the wicked under the circumstance that both practiced slavery. God however sets an example through His own people - ancient Israel that Hebrews are not allowed to enslave Hebrews as it's God's great effort to save them from the immoral secular slavery system (as practiced by the Egyptians). He will do the same to free mankind from their slavery master Satan. However it's not God's job even to ensure the Jews not to be affected by the worldly power under the circumstance that even the most moral are practicing slavery. He however goes through Moses to set up rules to regulate the situation as that even when it is inevitable for the Jews to be affected by the earth-wide practice, they won't be as cruel as the Egyptians who killed the Jews simply because the Jews went over-populated.

In a nutshell, it's not God's job to push for an absolute on earth as not a single human can pass the judgment by Law if an absolute is to be enforced. God's job is to save His sheep under the circumstance that no one is righteous, not even one. That in the end is closely tied to His war against Satan in a corrupted world where Satan's influence dominates. God fights in a way that His message of salvation will reach humans along the timeline of humanity such that His sheep will be saved in the end.

A covenant itself already means an absolute is not possible, such that a covenant is used instead to identify the righteous from the wicked by a justification made (or would be made) by Jesus Christ.

 

[shunyadragon]

God does two jobs basically.

1) He provides a foundation for all humans the same. His Law is written to each and every single human's heart the same so that he will be judged the same in the Final Judgment. That's the origin of our conscience and moral code.
Humans on the other hand, hammer their own moral code as time goes by. The analogy is like a pizza, God provides the bread part while humans add the toppings in accordance to their own favor.
Humans' moral code are altered in several ways after God provided the foundation. Satan and his horde work on humans even when they are still in their mother's womb. This gradually will form a culture of a society which in turn further alters the average moral code of a society. Parental education becomes another crucial factor on affecting the forming of one's final version of moral code. Formal education serves yet another factor, as in today's world formal education starts in everyone's early childhood.

Not apparent at all in the history of Christianity nor the text of the NT.

2) God is to set up a covenant to identify the righteous from the wicked.
Slavery serves a positive mean for the assessment of one's obedience. God let go it because along the timeline of humanity even the most moral and decent humans practiced slavery. God's job is not to work against their will, His job is to set up a covenant such that the righteous can be told apart from the wicked under the circumstance that both practiced slavery. God however sets an example through His own people - ancient Israel that Hebrews are not allowed to enslave Hebrews as it's God's great effort to save them from the immoral secular slavery system (as practiced by the Egyptians). He will do the same to free mankind from their slavery master Satan. However it's not God's job even to ensure the Jews not to be affected by the worldly power under the circumstance that even the most moral are practicing slavery. He however goes through Moses to set up rules to regulate the situation as that even when it is inevitable for the Jews to be affected by the earth-wide practice, they won't be as cruel as the Egyptians who killed the Jews simply because the Jews went over-populated.

Terrible excuse, abuse and justification for slavery

 

[shunyadragon]

And Rebbe?

and Rebbe??????

 

[IndigoChild5559]

and Rebbe??????

It contains the word Rebbe.

 

[shunyadragon]

It contains the word Rebbe.

It contains an ancient primitive symbols for priest for lord or god found in evolved forms in later hieroglyphics and the writings of a number of later alphabets. No, it does not contain the word Rebbe,.priest. We do not even know how it was pronounced. The closest we can come is Egyptian.

Again . . .

Again note: Note from an earlier reference that later languages that evolved from these early proto- Sinaitic symbols; They are Semitic Canaanite languages included Amorite, Edomite, Hebrew, Ammonite, Moabite, Phoenician (Punic/Carthaginian), Samaritan Hebrew, Ekronite and Sutean.

They review the finds of different inscriptions, various possible translations, and the different ancient cultures that use similar alphabets, and how they evolved over time. It describes what symbols were possibly used for the different Gods of the different cultures all over the Middle East. The symbols used in the evolution of the Hebrew language used the same symbols as other cultures used for one of their Gods such as the Egyptians, Canaanites and Phoenicians. This represents the evolution of written languages for Middle East cultures far older than the Hebrew language, and it is obvious they all had variations to who their God or Gods were. This tribal and Kingdom wars proclaiming my God(s) are the true God(s) grater than your God(s).

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It contains an ancient primitive symbol for lord or god found in evolved forms in later hieroglyphics and the writings of a number of later alphabets. No, it does not contain the word Rebbe.priest. We do not even know how it was pronounced. The closest we can come is Egyptian.

That is not what I found when I researched it, after you brought it up. And it was not egyptian.

 

[shunyadragon]

That is not what I found when I researched it, after you brought it up. And it was not Egyptian.

It was found in Egypt and the closest to the ancient script is indeed Egyptian hieroglyphics as documented in the source I provided. Yes these ancient scripts found in various sites are indeed the roots of all ancient writings and Hebrew is very late.

There is absolutely no known pronunciation with these ancient texts.

When one wants to justify one's own beliefs they find what they want to find.

I gave a very specific reference comparing the evolution of the text clearly shows that the closest text is the Hieroglyphics, and the relationship to the evolution of later texts of ALL Middle Eastern culture melding with the ancient cuneiform text the East.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It was found in Egypt and the closest to the ancient script is indeed Egyptian hieroglyphics as documented in the source I provided. Yes these ancient scripts found in various sites are indeed the roots of all ancient writings and Hebrew is very late.

There is absolutely no known pronunciation with these ancient texts.

When one wants to justify one's own beliefs they find what they want to find.

I gave a very specific reference comparing the evolution of the text clearly shows that the closest text is the Hieroglyphics, and the relationship to the evolution of later texts of ALL Middle Eastern culture melding with the ancient cuneiform text the East.

Look, you brought it up. To understand what you were saying, I looked into it and educated myself on the subject. I find that some of the things you are saying are not *quite* accurate. The most obvious is that you are not acknowledging that some of the writing is in Canaanite/proto-Hebrew and uses the word Rebbe.


This is an old discussion that I thought was laid to rest. I see no reason to dredge it up again.

 

[shunyadragon]

Look, you brought it up. To understand what you were saying, I looked into it and educated myself on the subject. I find that some of the things you are saying are not *quite* accurate. The most obvious is that you are not acknowledging that some of the writing is in Canaanite/proto-Hebrew and uses the word Rebbe.

The character used in the these oldest inscriptions are represented in later written languages as I referenced in the history of the written language for priests and Gods. The development of the Hebrew written language is very late and simply uses similar characters evolved from ancient primitive texts like those referenced.

This is an old discussion that I thought was laid to rest. I see no reason to dredge it up again.

Why bring it up again? I already documented the evolution of the alphabet characters in all the ancient Middle East languages and there is nothing special about the late Hebrew written language that like others evolved from the same ancient texts. The earliest happened to be the Egyption inscription that comes closest to primitive hieroglyphics.. Based on the references the majority of the scholars agree on the evolution of written language in the Middle East.

 

[Mitty]

The morals of Christianity are based on the character of God. Holiness, truthfulness, loyal loving kindness, generosity, respect for God, parents, others

Slavery is another subject and everyone is a slave of somethings whether good or bad. Better to delight in the good.

But biblical morality including the ten commandments etc is obviously just man-made since it wasn't morally wrong for Abraham to commit incest with his sister Sarah and commit adultery with Hagar. Nor was it morally wrong for Abraham to kill his son as a blood sacrifice or for Cain(an) to kill his brother Abel, or for Noah's father to kill a young man for injuring him (Gen 4) since the ten commandments etc are just man-made and didn't apply to them.

 

[shunyadragon]

But biblical morality including the ten commandments etc is obviously just man-made since it wasn't morally wrong for Abraham to commit incest with his sister Sarah and commit adultery with Hagar. Nor was it morally wrong for Abraham to kill his son as a blood sacrifice or for Cain(an) to kill his brother Abel, or for Noah's father to kill a young man for injuring him (Gen 4) since the ten commandments etc are just man-made and didn't apply to them.

I believe the scriptures and the commandments are a combination of Revelation and a human view of their relationship with God. Not everything is Revelation in the Bible especially the Pentateuch, despite the claims of many Christians. This is true of all religions.

The Baha'i view is the evolution of morals and ethics over time, and the behavior and man made laws of ancient cultures cannot construed as uniformly Revelation from God. Those that stand the test of time, positive to human development and cohesion, and uniform between different cultures through time is the measure.

 

[shunyadragon]

Look, you brought it up. To understand what you were saying, I looked into it and educated myself on the subject. I find that some of the things you are saying are not *quite* accurate. The most obvious is that you are not acknowledging that some of the writing is in Canaanite/proto-Hebrew and uses the word Rebbe.


This is an old discussion that I thought was laid to rest. I see no reason to dredge it up again.

To add the BYU research justifies my view of the evolution of written language in the Middle East.

 

[Mitty]

I believe the scriptures and the commandments are a combination of Revelation and a human view of their relationship with God. Not everything is Revelation in the Bible especially the Pentateuch, despite the claims of many Christians. This is true of all religions.

The Baha'i view is the evolution of morals and ethics over time, and the behavior and man made laws of ancient cultures cannot construed as uniformly Revelation from God. Those that stand the test of time, positive to human development and cohesion, and uniform between different cultures through time is the measure.

So when Abraham shared a non-kosher meal with his god and discussed the number of righteous children in Gomorrah, why didn't "the LORD" reveal to Abraham that it was morally wrong to commit incest with his sister Sarah and commit adultery with Hagar (Gen 18)? And why didn't Abraham's god tell Abraham that it was morally wrong to kill his son as a blood sacrifice, or to tell Cain(an) that it was morally wrong to kill his brother Abel, or to tell Noah's father that it was morally wrong to kill a young man for injuring him (Gen 4)?

 

[shunyadragon]

So when Abraham shared a non-kosher meal with his god and discussed the number of righteous children in Gomorrah, why didn't "the LORD" reveal to Abraham that it was morally wrong to commit incest with his sister Sarah and commit adultery with Hagar (Gen 18)? And why didn't Abraham's god tell Abraham that it was morally wrong to kill his son as a blood sacrifice, or to tell Cain(an) that it was morally wrong to kill his brother Abel, or to tell Noah's father that it was morally wrong to kill a young man for injuring him (Gen 4)?

This is more of a problem with Christians who believe in a literal Genesis and Pentateuch. Again, most of the Pentateuch is a very very human story to justify their belief at the time. The cities described were most likely the fate of a volcanic event based on the archaeology.