What Mistakes do Non-Muslims make when debating/discussing Islam with Muslims?

[*Anne*]

Inspired by Shia Islam's thread. I wasn't sure where to place this at first, but I figured the DIR would probably get more answers:

So Fatihah doesn't have to repeat himself:

Response: The number one thing I would say is simply not being open-minded enough. Instead of actually reading the qur'an to learn islam, they rather read the newspaper and make a generalisation. I can probably say for sure, that of every critic of islam and non -muslims, even the non-muslims participating in this very thread, have never read the qur'an in its entirety and tried to understand it. Not only that, but they never have studied the hadiths and its chain of narrations. This is the biggest mistake. Not even having the courtesy to even read the qur'an and the sunnah fully before making a judgment of islam.

 

[Sahar]

Thanks for the this thread, Anne. I wonder why there are no replies. When non Muslims were asked about their opinion on what Muslims should do and shouldn't when having a debate, we read dozens of replies...

What do you think, guys?

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, if a heathen may chime in....I see people criticizing of the tenets of Islam as wrong because it conflicts with their own (ie, non-Islamic) values.
It's not an argument which will sway anyone, since values are subjective. After all, if one believes in a religion, then one believes the tenets of that religion.

 

[Caladan]

Originally Posted by Fatihah

Response: The number one thing I would say is simply not being open-minded enough. Instead of actually reading the qur'an to learn islam, they rather read the newspaper and make a generalisation. I can probably say for sure, that of every critic of islam and non -muslims, even the non-muslims participating in this very thread, have never read the qur'an in its entirety and tried to understand it. Not only that, but they never have studied the hadiths and its chain of narrations. This is the biggest mistake. Not even having the courtesy to even read the qur'an and the sunnah fully before making a judgment of islam.

I have read the Qur'an in two languages, I have read books about Islam, I have visited mosques, several Muslim nations, have served among Muslim populations, and I am doing my Master thesis on the early Islamic period.
you simply refuse to be opened to criticism, from some very informative people who go to exauhsting lenghth in exploring Islam and Muslims.

 

[neves]

Originally Posted by Fatihah

I have read the Qur'an in two languages, I have read books about Islam, I have visited mosques, several Muslim nations, have served among Muslim populations, and I am doing my Master thesis on the early Islamic period.
you simply refuse to be opened to criticism, from some very informative people who go to exauhsting lenghth in exploring Islam and Muslims.

I wish you were the rule and not the exception....

 

[Caladan]

I wish you were the rule and not the exception....

Look neves, there ARE informative individuas on this forum with a desire to learn, and some of them can surprise the Muslim members and show that they can listen as well.

 

[neves]

Look neves, there ARE informative individuas on this forum with a desire to learn, and some of them can surprise the Muslim members and show that they can listen as well.

Why do you think I still post on this forum...?

 

[Caladan]

Why do you think I still post on this forum...?

Good to hear that.

 

[Sahar]

One of the things I notice that many can't accept the fact that Muslims have a different reference and standard.. For example, it's assumed that secularism is the best for all and neutral to all and I and some other Muslims take much time debating that no, not for Muslims. I don't believe in many of the non Muslim's (and Westerners') values and I have my own values as well.

 

[Caladan]

One of the things I notice that many can't accept the fact that Muslims have a different reference and standard.. For example, it's assumed that secularism is the best for all and neutral to all and I and some other Muslims take much time debating that no, not for Muslims. I don't believe in many of the non Muslim's (and Westerners') values and I have my own values as well.

Not4Me,

But no one is asking you to change, what people are doing is criticizing the same things we criticize about our own nations, dont you think we critizie Christianity and Judaism in our nations? or discrimination against gays? many of us feel that we have learned enough to understand we want a society free of religion, it doesnt mean we cant tolerate your religion if you can accept the fact that we are liberals, atheists, gays, etc.

 

[Sahar]

Fatiha's point is a good one. Many of those who join the debates know nothing about the Qur'an or Islam and then you find the threads are full of their posts judging and making claims about the Qur'an and Islam. And they don't show any interest in learning or educating themselves.

 

[Sahar]

I have many thoughts on this, I'll try to come later to post more.

 

[LuisDantas]

Thanks for the this thread, Anne. I wonder why there are no replies. When non Muslims were asked about their opinion on what Muslims should do and shouldn't when having a debate, we read dozens of replies...

What do you think, guys?

Maybe it is just me, but I would expect Muslims to be the ones with the most to inform in a thread such as this one. That is probably why Anne created it in this DIR, come to think of it.

 

[maro]

Ignorance

I don't know why people with grave ignorance about the religion are encouraged to debate with muslims ?
I've heard a lot of funny stuff about islam here..

I've heard that the quran says that earth is flat and thus science proved it wrong...i've heard that the quran blames Eve and thus she and all women were punished by the labour pains !!! I've heard that Islam considers women to be impure and that it's an anti sex religion

For God sake ,why don't those read a little bit about what they are up to debate instead of looking so foolish ?!!

 

[Abu Rashid]

I have read the Qur'an in two languages, I have read books about Islam, I have visited mosques, several Muslim nations, have served among Muslim populations, and I am doing my Master thesis on the early Islamic period.

This is pretty sad then, since you're still extremely ignorant about many of the basic tenets of the Islamic faith, culture and mindset.

 

[Caladan]

This is pretty sad then, since you're still extremely ignorant about many of the basic tenets of the Islamic faith, culture and mindset.

I assure you, I have met nothing but ignorance from Muslims about their own Deen.
its just that without exception no Muslim member here is capable of taking a drop of criticism without resorting to Self-righteousness, or worse preaching the other members that the world will be Muslim one day.

 

[Panda]

Wee reminder guys this is the Islam DIR if you want to debate take it somewhere else please.

 

[*Anne*]

Ignorance

I've heard a lot of funny stuff about islam here..

I'm sure some are simply parroting what they've heard or read from a likely biased source.

I wonder, though, how many read the Quran (or start reading) and find themselves at a loss as to how to interpret it. Are we supposed to take it all literally? I'm thinking, "No," yet I'm not exactly sure how I'm to interpret certain things.

For example:

002.222
YUSUFALI: They ask thee concerning women's courses. Say: They are a hurt and a pollution: So keep away from women in their courses, and do not approach them until they are clean.

Yikes, we're a pollution?! I can see where someone might read this and think it means women are impure and unclean.

However, then we have this:

SHAKIR: And they ask you about menstruation. Say: It is a discomfort; therefore keep aloof from the women during the menstrual discharge and do not go near them until they have become clean;

That doesn't sound nearly as bad. (It is a discomfort frankly. )

 

[Caladan]

I'm sure some are simply parroting what they've heard or read from a likely biased source.

I think you are highly underestimating some of the members on this site, who are genuinely concerned about Islam and current affairs. in other words you are saying that Muslim members should be free of criticism, why?
Dont normal western citizens have the right to criticize homophobia, Misogyny, or discrimination?

I wonder, though, how many read the Quran (or start reading) and find themselves at a loss as to how to interpret it. Are we supposed to take it all literally? I'm thinking, "No," yet I'm not exactly sure how I'm to interpret certain things.

Take it at face value, because this is how Muslims take it.

 

[Sahar]

I wonder, though, how many read the Quran (or start reading) and find themselves at a loss as to how to interpret it. Are we supposed to take it all literally? I'm thinking, "No," yet I'm not exactly sure how I'm to interpret certain things.

Who is "we"?!
The meaning of the verse you quoted is very well known to Muslims because some known laws are extracted from it. 1- Sexual intercourse with women during menstruation is forbidden. 2- The other law is concerned with cleanliness chapter in jurisprudence books; women are required to make ghusl (body wash) after their menstruation period so that they can resume praying, fasting, etc and of course the context here, having sexual intercourse with the husband.

It is forbidden to have intercourse with a woman when she is menstruating (having her period), because Allah says: “They ask you concerning menstruation. Say: that is a harm, therefore keep away from women during menses and go not unto them till they have purified (from menses and have taken a bath). And when they have purified themselves, then go in unto them as Allah has ordained for you (go in unto them in any manner as long as it is in the vagina). Truly, Allah loves those who turn unto Him in repentance and loves those who purify themselves (by taking a bath and cleaning and washing thoroughly their private parts, bodies, for their prayers, etc.).” (Al-Baqarah: 222). However, it is permissible for the husband to enjoy his menstruating wife without having intercourse.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/islam-dir/98393-sexuality-sex-islam.html

So a simple thing can be done, is to ask Muslims about the ayah. The ayah is talking about having sexual intercourse during menstruation and as it's clear in the verse, it's forbidden.

Edit: "Adhan" which is translated as "hurt", "harm", "discomfort" refers to menstruation not women.