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What measure is Intelligence

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
I want to discuss intelligence, particularly I.D. Intelligent Design (I didn't put this in the evolution part though cause I figure it can be used to discuss intelligence in general).

I had recently (and by recently I mean like a month ago) A special on BBC that was measuring intelligence. It brought people together from various walks of life and tried to measure their intelligence.

Generally speaking, I think that when we talk about intelligence we talk about problem solving/pattern recognition. But what other forms of intelligence are out there?

I ask because assuming that people using I.D are just mentioning a creator to which any attributes can be given, what type of intelligence does this creator have?

1. Naturalist Intelligence (“Nature Smart”)

Designates the human ability to discriminate among living things (plants, animals) as well as sensitivity to other features of the natural world (clouds, rock configurations). This ability was clearly of value in our evolutionary past as hunters, gatherers, and farmers; it continues to be central in such roles as botanist or chef. It is also speculated that much of our consumer society exploits the naturalist intelligences, which can be mobilized in the discrimination among cars, sneakers, kinds of makeup, and the like.

2. Musical Intelligence (“Musical Smart”)

Musical intelligence is the capacity to discern pitch, rhythm, timbre, and tone. This intelligence enables us to recognize, create, reproduce, and reflect on music, as demonstrated by composers, conductors, musicians, vocalist, and sensitive listeners. Interestingly, there is often an affective connection between music and the emotions; and mathematical and musical intelligences may share common thinking processes. Young adults with this kind of intelligence are usually singing or drumming to themselves. They are usually quite aware of sounds others may miss.


3. Logical-Mathematical Intelligence (Number/Reasoning Smart)

Logical-mathematical intelligence is the ability to calculate, quantify, consider propositions and hypotheses, and carry out complete mathematical operations. It enables us to perceive relationships and connections and to use abstract, symbolic thought; sequential reasoning skills; and inductive and deductive thinking patterns. Logical intelligence is usually well developed in mathematicians, scientists, and detectives. Young adults with lots of logical intelligence are interested in patterns, categories, and relationships. They are drawn to arithmetic problems, strategy games and experiments.

4. Existential Intelligence

Sensitivity and capacity to tackle deep questions about human existence, such as the meaning of life, why do we die, and how did we get here.

5. Interpersonal Intelligence (People Smart”)

Interpersonal intelligence is the ability to understand and interact effectively with others. It involves effective verbal and nonverbal communication, the ability to note distinctions among others, sensitivity to the moods and temperaments of others, and the ability to entertain multiple perspectives. Teachers, social workers, actors, and politicians all exhibit interpersonal intelligence. Young adults with this kind of intelligence are leaders among their peers, are good at communicating, and seem to understand others’ feelings and motives.

6. Bodily-Kinesthetic Intelligence (“Body Smart”)

Bodily kinesthetic intelligence is the capacity to manipulate objects and use a variety of physical skills. This intelligence also involves a sense of timing and the perfection of skills through mind–body union. Athletes, dancers, surgeons, and craftspeople exhibit well-developed bodily kinesthetic intelligence.

7. Linguistic Intelligence (Word Smart)

Linguistic intelligence is the ability to think in words and to use language to express and appreciate complex meanings. Linguistic intelligence allows us to understand the order and meaning of words and to apply meta-linguistic skills to reflect on our use of language. Linguistic intelligence is the most widely shared human competence and is evident in poets, novelists, journalists, and effective public speakers. Young adults with this kind of intelligence enjoy writing, reading, telling stories or doing crossword puzzles.

8. Intra-personal Intelligence (Self Smart”)

Intra-personal intelligence is the capacity to understand oneself and one’s thoughts and feelings, and to use such knowledge in planning and directioning one’s life. Intra-personal intelligence involves not only an appreciation of the self, but also of the human condition. It is evident in psychologist, spiritual leaders, and philosophers. These young adults may be shy. They are very aware of their own feelings and are self-motivated.

9. Spatial Intelligence (“Picture Smart”)

Spatial intelligence is the ability to think in three dimensions. Core capacities include mental imagery, spatial reasoning, image manipulation, graphic and artistic skills, and an active imagination. Sailors, pilots, sculptors, painters, and architects all exhibit spatial intelligence. Young adults with this kind of intelligence may be fascinated with mazes or jigsaw puzzles, or spend free time drawing or daydreaming.


From: Overview of the Multiple Intelligences Theory. Association for Supervision and Curriculum Development and Thomas Armstrong.com


That's a list of intelligences, but you know, i'm sure there is more we can think of.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
want to discuss intelligence, particularly I.D. Intelligent Design


Why do they have to connect one another?



There is no conection to I.D. beyond wishful thinking and fantasy. The bible doesnt even support I.D.



Our brains evolved to a larger size due to change in diet and environment, plain and simple. Our computers evolved to work better, no magic required.
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Why do they have to connect one another?



There is no conection to I.D. beyond wishful thinking and fantasy. The bible doesnt even support I.D.



Our brains evolved to a larger size due to change in diet and environment, plain and simple. Our computers evolved to work better, no magic required.

Well to me when someoen says I.D. they aren't necessairly talking about the God of the Bible. They are simply talking about something more intelligent than we are, and I guess to a degree more powerful (or able to use their resource more effectively)

So given that, I want to know what kind of intelligence are they attributing to that being?

Given that we see "flaws" in nature, there appears to be either a limit to the beings intelligence or it is using some other form of intelligence that we normally don't account for.
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
And nothing like that is known to exist.

This leaves your post still firmly attached to fantasy and imagination.


I do not discount the possibility for life or intelligence elsewhere.

And your point? I don't see were any of what I said had anything to do with reality.

I'm taking the assumption that there is an I.D. and proposing it to be true

as there are people who believe in an I.D.

I want to see what type of intelligence people attribute to the I.D. It doesn't need to be God, it can be intelligent life out there.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
I want to see what type of intelligence people attribute to the I.D. .

Well most place mythology in that category in some kind of deity.

Secular outcast may run with some nonsense about little green men.


And those with any intelligence claim this is all fantasy and wishful thinking.






It doesn't need to be God, it can be intelligent life out there

Really?

Little green men jumped out of there saucer and sprinkled evolution dust in their eyes and BAM!!! and new species happens to be formed :D


Come on man
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Well most place mythology in that category in some kind of deity.

Secular outcast may run with some nonsense about little green men.


And those with any intelligence claim this is all fantasy and wishful thinking.








Really?

Little green men jumped out of there saucer and sprinkled evolution dust in their eyes and BAM!!! and new species happens to be formed :D


Come on man

Well that's the thing I.D. isn't really defined, it's just implied. I'm assuming that they are operating off the basis of the designer being intelligent. If that is so, what kind of intelligence is it.

Maybe I should have put "If a hypothetical I.D. existed what type of Intelligence would you say it has?"
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
:eek:

Multiple Intelligences?? Gardner's Theory!!??

You can't just SPRING that on a poor unsuspecting me when I enter a thread. It was HAMMERED into me when I was going through teacher's college. Now I'm having flashback nightmares of Uni. Parties. Girls. Booze. :drool:

Err...Okay, I've decided to forgive you after all.

I'm finding the OP a bit of a stretch. Multiple Intelligences, I can unfortunately recite in my sleep, and discuss if you want to. But including ID in your topic just confuses me. But I'll make an honest go of it. After all, I post as many confusing topics as anyone, and most people at least try to understand what I'm going on about...

Gardner came up with MI theory through observation of humans. His basic premise was that traditional intelligence measurements were effectively value judgements which rewarded a particular style of thinking, and neglected to recognise other thought processes...creative and practical/physical in particular, although he later added more abstract processes to the original 7.

So, I would imagine there's 2 ways to consider this.
An intelligent Creator of some type might have made us in his own image. We might be mini-me style Creators ourselves. So the Creator holds the same Intelligences we do, but on a deity-scale. (it's like grand scale, but grander). The question then is simple. How closely does MI theory match what you've observed about people? Because by improving or clarifying on MI theory, you're also building on your understanding of the Creator.

or

An intelligent Creator is fundamentally different and greater than us. Our 5 sense leave us unable to see him (unless he's hiding behind Oprah or something) so it perhaps makes sense that the Creator has additional senses and dimensions to him that leaves him entirely outside our understanding. Applying MI to this Creator is akin to counting the crimson beads on an abacus, and then figuring I can try to find the same number of red ones when I rip apart the world's largest supercomputer.

Or something. I'm tired, and my sense of humour has been playing tricks on me today.

Anyways, since I'm an atheist, this is all kinda hypothetical for me.
 

chinu

chinu
@ What measure is Intelligence
This is the story about an intelligent village.

Intelligent village means a village were all people including the King/president of that village were intelligent peoples. There were two wells (Source of drinking water) in that village, one in the king's house and another one was common for the whole village. One day one magician came into that village and poured the magical water into the common-well of the village. due to which all people of that village started turning into an unintelligent people from an intelligent people, and slowly the whole village was effected by the water.

But only the king who was having his personal well was saved, But he was in a big tension, because.. now all people of that village was refusing that king to be their king, as he was an unintelligent person according to them.

Finally, one day King ran towards the effected-well and drink the effected water to save his kingship :D

Thus.. this is how we people measure intelligence. :)
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
:eek:

Multiple Intelligences?? Gardner's Theory!!??

You can't just SPRING that on a poor unsuspecting me when I enter a thread. It was HAMMERED into me when I was going through teacher's college. Now I'm having flashback nightmares of Uni. Parties. Girls. Booze. :drool:

Err...Okay, I've decided to forgive you after all.

I'm finding the OP a bit of a stretch. Multiple Intelligences, I can unfortunately recite in my sleep, and discuss if you want to. But including ID in your topic just confuses me. But I'll make an honest go of it. After all, I post as many confusing topics as anyone, and most people at least try to understand what I'm going on about...

Gardner came up with MI theory through observation of humans. His basic premise was that traditional intelligence measurements were effectively value judgements which rewarded a particular style of thinking, and neglected to recognise other thought processes...creative and practical/physical in particular, although he later added more abstract processes to the original 7.

So, I would imagine there's 2 ways to consider this.
An intelligent Creator of some type might have made us in his own image. We might be mini-me style Creators ourselves. So the Creator holds the same Intelligences we do, but on a deity-scale. (it's like grand scale, but grander). The question then is simple. How closely does MI theory match what you've observed about people? Because by improving or clarifying on MI theory, you're also building on your understanding of the Creator.

or

An intelligent Creator is fundamentally different and greater than us. Our 5 sense leave us unable to see him (unless he's hiding behind Oprah or something) so it perhaps makes sense that the Creator has additional senses and dimensions to him that leaves him entirely outside our understanding. Applying MI to this Creator is akin to counting the crimson beads on an abacus, and then figuring I can try to find the same number of red ones when I rip apart the world's largest supercomputer.

Or something. I'm tired, and my sense of humour has been playing tricks on me today.

Anyways, since I'm an atheist, this is all kinda hypothetical for me.

Let me clarify...or attempt to.

In avoidance of saying "God of Israel" many will just claim there is some form of I.D. that played a role in the development of the Universe and Life.

I'm not claiming that multiple intelligence is fact, but if we accept the claim that there is some form of I.D. that did create the universe and life, then how are they defining intelligence?

If we account for the the seemingly lack of life in the known Universe and the flaws of life forms on this planet. Is there a particular type of intelligence that an I.D. would have to explain this.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Let's not forget....theory of mind.

There are experiments going on even as we speak to define what a mind actually is.

Most of it relies on comparisons.
The behavior of response...animal compared to human.
Animals can take their awareness of another's perception to a limit.
They readily react and respond for the immediate event.
But no more than that.
And they assume your response will be the same as theirs.
For the limitations they suffer....they see you the same way they see themselves.
They have no clue your abilities are far greater than theirs.

We can consider the 'presence' of Something 'unseen'.

It does appear....only humans lean to a perception of God.
And believers when praying have a noted difference in brain physiology...
as compared to non-believers while performing meditation.

Believers really do believe they are talking to Someone.
 

Chazzer

New Member
It's funny you should talk about intelligence in such grandiose terms. Basically to quote the ancient Greeks, "We know nothing."

We don't know who we are, why we're here, what we're doing. We aren't even positive where we are.

So to sum up, you are describing different tools from a system of intellect that we have no real clue about. Hence we must be clueless.
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
It's funny you should talk about intelligence in such grandiose terms. Basically to quote the ancient Greeks, "We know nothing."

We don't know who we are, why we're here, what we're doing. We aren't even positive where we are.

So to sum up, you are describing different tools from a system of intellect that we have no real clue about. Hence we must be clueless.

Not talking about intelligence outside of what we believe it to be.

This is a presumption being made about what an I.D. means. Is there a type of intelligence that people believe an I.D. would possess?

It's not talking about what we know, but what would believe an I.D. would know and what it can do with what it knows.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
It's funny you should talk about intelligence in such grandiose terms. Basically to quote the ancient Greeks, "We know nothing."

We don't know who we are, why we're here, what we're doing. We aren't even positive where we are.

So to sum up, you are describing different tools from a system of intellect that we have no real clue about. Hence we must be clueless.

We are here to learn all that we can before we die.
The body is a means of delivering this life to the mind and heart of a fresh soul.
Your body can't actually do anything else.

You were made to become a unique spirit.
Your linear existence insures it.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
You could have a neurosurgeon who is thought to be very intelligent, but what if he was stranded in the desert of or anywhere where he couldn't survive, and along comes a native who shows him how to find water and food, then now who is the intelligent one ?.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
You could have a neurosurgeon who is thought to be very intelligent, but what if he was stranded in the desert of or anywhere where he couldn't survive, and along comes a native who shows him how to find water and food, then now who is the intelligent one ?.

This could lead to confusion.
The acquisition of knowledge is all fine and well......but....

The devil knows the scriptures, the old testament, the new testament, all of the variations, the Quran, the works of Shakespeare and Einstein, how to play chess......etc...

But for all that he might know.....he doesn't walk in heaven.
 
Let's not forget....theory of mind.

There are experiments going on even as we speak to define what a mind actually is.

Most of it relies on comparisons.
The behavior of response...animal compared to human.
Animals can take their awareness of another's perception to a limit.
They readily react and respond for the immediate event.
But no more than that.
And they assume your response will be the same as theirs.
For the limitations they suffer....they see you the same way they see themselves.
They have no clue your abilities are far greater than theirs.

We can consider the 'presence' of Something 'unseen'.

It does appear....only humans lean to a perception of God.
And believers when praying have a noted difference in brain physiology...
as compared to non-believers while performing meditation.

Believers really do believe they are talking to Someone.

Yes, and they are talking to themselves or to a demonic spirit that is in everyman to some extent.
Most so called believers believe in what they read, none that I have met speak from their own experience from insight and revelations.

As far seeing something unseen, one can experience even that as I have.
As far as my own intelligence, I have none. I don't study, I don't read I never graduated from high school, so I am ignorant to these things. I know there is another intelligence and when the mind is quiet it can experience a demonic spirit when cleansing takes place all by yourself, no help from anyone else.
I do a judeo meditation and I started to many years ago and almost immediately my mind began to change. Many things in my life fell away and my mind has been renewing ever since. I am not through yet, I see a few things that need to be changed, but, I cannot do it, but, I know it can be done.
A quiet mind is what it takes.
I have experienced hell in my mind and body most of my life and was very emotional and experienced many painful things that many suffer from.
Stress is a killer and many minds are destroyed by it, physically and emotionally.
I hesitate sharing this for fear of boasting.
That was a very awakening post of yours.
Thank you for sharing.

Figure that out.
 
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Thief

Rogue Theologian
It's funny you should talk about intelligence in such grandiose terms. Basically to quote the ancient Greeks, "We know nothing."

We don't know who we are, why we're here, what we're doing. We aren't even positive where we are.

So to sum up, you are describing different tools from a system of intellect that we have no real clue about. Hence we must be clueless.

Indeed!
If you are intelligent....for every answer there will be more questions.

Therefore....as you increase in knowing your questions increase even faster.

With every occasion of sure discovery....you become more ignorant.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Given that we see "flaws" in nature, there appears to be either a limit to the beings intelligence or it is using some other form of intelligence that we normally don't account for.

Any deity who is not a human would naturally be different and may not even need any form of human intelligence. Nature does rather well without even having to go to school so the way I figure it, nature is intelligent in its own way. We wouldn't be intelligent ourselves without nature doing what it does behind the scenes and in the subconscious.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Let me clarify...or attempt to.

In avoidance of saying "God of Israel" many will just claim there is some form of I.D. that played a role in the development of the Universe and Life.

I'm not claiming that multiple intelligence is fact, but if we accept the claim that there is some form of I.D. that did create the universe and life, then how are they defining intelligence?

If we account for the the seemingly lack of life in the known Universe and the flaws of life forms on this planet. Is there a particular type of intelligence that an I.D. would have to explain this.

Yes......... Chaos! Simply the perfect intelligence quotient!

Everything will turn out exactly as required, with utterly ruthless expediency........ when 'chaos' is applied.

And the further we research and wonder about its roots, so the further we will find that the answers are beyond our reach.
 
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