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What matters, whats real?

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
If John Doe believes in a god and you don't, why does what's he believes in matter so much to you?
Beliefs inform actions, and some of these beliefs that you seem to be implying "shouldn't matter" have resulted in some pretty idiotic and harmful actions. If there are those of us among nonbelievers who feel that believers are not justified in holding their beliefs (i.e. that they don't have enough evidence to warrant belief) then why wouldn't we grapple with the ideas and try and convince the others to give them up? Why not? Especially considering that many believers actively try and convince others of their goofy beliefs all the damn time. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. You want to retain the ability to convert others? Then you need to leave me the ability to try and de-convert others. Note: I have no alternative or substitute ideology - except to refrain from believing daffy things and stick to evidence and reality-based beliefs.

Evidence for a god can neither show a god does or doesn't exist.
Yeah - and this poses a huge problem for theists. It seems you don't even realize it... which is, quite frankly, typical and unfortunate.

The arguement of both has to come from a belief because neither have supporting evidence(a god can neither be proven or disproven)
But I don't go around saying "your God doesn't exist." This is the takeaway of a lot of theists, but that is NOT what I say. What I say is: "I don't believe you. Got any evidence?" And when they can't produce anything compelling, I laugh, shake my head in disappointment, and either turn my back on them and walk away, or continue to grill them fiercely if they show signs of not realizing their error in trying to convince me based on dog crap.

So my question is what makes anyone think their belief is stronger than the belief of others?
As I said - I AM NOT PEDDLING AN ALTERNATIVE BELIEF. What do I have to offer as regards the "foundations of the universe?" Nothing. I have no alternative hypothesis. What I advocate for is that NO ONE NEEDS ONE until such time as the evidence points out a clearer path to the realities. You don't need to know what caused the universe. You don't. Billions of people have lived their lives not knowing. Sure it's fun to think about... but what isn't fun is watching people guess a few times, land on a story they think is "nice" and then start trying to convince others that what they have zero good evidence for is "the truth." That's just plain terrible to watch.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Beliefs inform actions, and some of these beliefs that you seem to be implying "shouldn't matter" have resulted in some pretty idiotic and harmful actions. If there are those of us among nonbelievers who feel that believers are not justified in holding their beliefs (i.e. that they don't have enough evidence to warrant belief) then why wouldn't we grapple with the ideas and try and convince the others to give them up? Why not? Especially considering that many believers actively try and convince others of their goofy beliefs all the damn time. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. You want to retain the ability to convert others? Then you need to leave me the ability to try and de-convert others. Note: I have no alternative or substitute ideology - except to refrain from believing daffy things and stick to evidence and reality-based beliefs.

Yeah - and this poses a huge problem for theists. It seems you don't even realize it... which is, quite frankly, typical and unfortunate.

But I don't go around saying "your God doesn't exist." This is the takeaway of a lot of theists, but that is NOT what I say. What I say is: "I don't believe you. Got any evidence?" And when they can't produce anything compelling, I laugh, shake my head in disappointment, and either turn my back on them and walk away, or continue to grill them fiercely if they show signs of not realizing their error in trying to convince me based on dog crap.

As I said - I AM NOT PEDDLING AN ALTERNATIVE BELIEF. What do I have to offer as regards the "foundations of the universe?" Nothing. I have no alternative hypothesis. What I advocate for is that NO ONE NEEDS ONE until such time as the evidence points out a clearer path to the realities. You don't need to know what caused the universe. You don't. Billions of people have lived their lives not knowing. Sure it's fun to think about... but what isn't fun is watching people guess a few times, land on a story they think is "nice" and then start trying to convince others that what they have zero good evidence for is "the truth." That's just plain terrible to watch.
It doesn't matter to me if a person believes in a god or doesn't.
However it seems some non-believers are that way because a god can't be shown to exist.
Whereas some believers are that way because a god can't be shown to not exist.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter to me if a person believes in a god or doesn't.
Which is obviously completely fine... for you.

However it seems some non-believers are that way because a god can't be shown to exist.
Whereas some believers are that way because a god can't be shown to not exist.
This same thing can be said for infinitely many things we might imagine that are unfalsifiable, unfortunately, and a huge portion of those are things theists would also very heartily doubt the existence of. They take exception to ONE of those things, and take it even further by heartily advocating for the idea that this one unfalsifiable thing exists - meanwhile stating how obvious it is that millions of others likely don't exist. It would be high comedy - if it didn't also cause so many problems.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
If John Doe believes in a god and you don't, why does what's he believes in matter so much to you?

Evidence for a god can neither show a god does or doesn't exist.

The arguement of both has to come from a belief because neither have supporting evidence(a god can neither be proven or disproven)

So my question is what makes anyone think their belief is stronger than the belief of others?

Having the bigger, more bad-*** weapon of destruction.

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Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
If John Doe believes in a god and you don't, why does what's he believes in matter so much to you?

Evidence for a god can neither show a god does or doesn't exist.

The arguement of both has to come from a belief because neither have supporting evidence(a god can neither be proven or disproven)

So my question is what makes anyone think their belief is stronger than the belief of others?
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skepticlink.com (image above)

Hundreds of theists have come to the door of everyone in America, so now a few atheists put in their opinions on a religion forum, and everyone feels proselytized.

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President George W. Bush wearing a yarmulka (Jewish hat), pretending to be all things to all people.

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Disinformation (lies) rife, President George W. Bush, with the help of the Religious Right, defeated triple amputee (two legs and an arm) McClellan on the issue of war heroism. Numerous sources, including W. Bush's commanding officer, Burkett, claimed that W. Bush was put into a non-combat reserve unit in Texas, went AWOL to work on a political campaign and date Trisha Nixon (president's dau), and had records dumped in the trash by his dad's lawyers who invaded Burkett's office. W. Bush, with the help of lies from the Religious Right (and NRA and Vets for Truth), defeated legitimate war hero, Senator John Kerry. Distortions of the truth allowed Bush to win out over legitimate war heroes.

Part of President George H. W. Bush's (senior's, and former Director of the CIA) "New World Order" (which Bush often spoke about), American's phones were tapped (see Eric Snowden), internet and email spied on, mail intercepted, in an effort to take away all of our Constitutional Rights (with the Patriot Act, and the proposed Patriot Act II which were only supposed to be enacted temporarily to handle an emergency). The US spied on its people more than the Soviet Union, or any harsh Communist dictator. Internet articles were rewritten by the CIA and the truth cannot be posted even in private blogs. Example: Wiki article on Bush says that "he handled complaints about torture in Guantanamo." Couldn't the same be said of Hitler?

Once the Religious Right grabbed power, they made wars ("thou shalt not kill"). They embarrassed their enemies with propaganda to further their war goals ("thou shalt not bear false witness").

Having sent hundreds of proselytizers to each and every home in America, they now object to a few posts by a few atheists in religious forums. They complain that they cannot prove that their God exists. They complain that they cannot teach evolution in schools (separation of church and state), and end science, which is perceived as the enemy of religion. What happened to the good ol days of the inquisition when scientists were "kindly and gently" burned at the stake for asserting that meteors fell from God's perfect sky? Scientists could be killed to keep the world in the Dark Ages. Science is currently saving the world with a COVID vaccine.

Though the Religious Right is solely responsible for electing Reagan, Bush, and W. Bush to the presidency, and tilting the balance of Congressional power to Republicans, and making Republican governors, and ousting democrat governors (like Gray Davis of California, and soon Gavin Newsome), there is nary a picture remaining of their political rallies. Such pictures used to be rife on the internet. But, W. Bush said, don't judge me by current polls, judge me in the annals of history....a distorted and heavily redacted history. A history rewritten by the CIA, and information expunged from the internet.
 
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