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What makes something worthy of worship? What characteristics define a god or God?

ManTimeForgot

ManTimeForgot

Temporally Challenged
Onkara said:
In my view "God" is not separate from anything or any person, so "God" is not a separate being and hence not extra-terrestrial.

"God" is in fact being-ness itself, and that being-ness includes all entities with "life" e.g. humans, animals, plants etc. Within beingness are all apparently static phenomena too i.e. mountains, oceans, planets, etc. For this reason it is everywhere (omnipresent), timeless and immortal. It is without birth or death and all knowing (omnisicent) as it is everywhere always.

"God" is Being-ness or existence itself, hence it is our core Self or higher Self. Words are just pointers. The fundamental goal is to recognise this being-ness for yourself as your Self. When we recognise it we recognise that our being is indeed"the very least the maximal entity that reality can support (it must be the very best possible)". In other words it is the summun bonum of life, it is the foundation for everything and the arena in which all coming and going exists.

Worship then is not for something in return, but to enhance something which already exists. It enhances the Being-ness (God/Self) in that it allows all focus, all energy and thought to concentrate on our core i.e. on God/Self. Its reward is the enrichment of life i.e. of our own being, of God and of our higher Self. Ramanuja, a philosopher said "He who extremely loves this Self is loved by this Self".
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As I said if Reality is a self-determining whole capable of making "alterations" even if you suppose that those alterations are made intra-systemically via its actors (humans for instance), then I could and would indeed recognize such a thing's claim to being labeled "God." I actually dislike the word "God" for the reason that it is too expansive, and as such would like to be able to limit it to one specific set of ideas or another as opposed to "Whatever the current person thinks it means."


I can also see why someone might suggest that worship was intrinsically valuable; or perhaps enhances something which is intrinsically valuable (as in our social or emotional bonds), but I am not positive I agree that even given the assumption that all things are "God" means that I should worship and respect or even love everything that is real.

Should I not try to use violence to stop a sociopath from killing wantonly just because he is of "God?"

MTF
 
O

Onkara

Well-Known Member
ManTimeForgot said:
As I said if Reality is a self-determining whole capable of making "alterations" even if you suppose that those alterations are made intra-systemically via its actors (humans for instance), then I could and would indeed recognize such a thing's claim to being labeled "God." I actually dislike the word "God" for the reason that it is too expansive, and as such would like to be able to limit it to one specific set of ideas or another as opposed to "Whatever the current person thinks it means."


I can also see why someone might suggest that worship was intrinsically valuable; or perhaps enhances something which is intrinsically valuable (as in our social or emotional bonds), but I am not positive I agree that even given the assumption that all things are "God" means that I should worship and respect or even love everything that is real.

Should I not try to use violence to stop a sociopath from killing wantonly just because he is of "God?"

MTF
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Love, anger, violence, passion are not separate from "God" from your Being or Self. The general view is that each emotion, person or object in this world has a separate existence quite independent from the whole. Further investigation has shown me that there is nothing which exists separately from the the whole. Love is still "God" or my Self. Violence/anger is still an expression which I am capable of, be it right or wrong.

So if you act to stop a sociopath from killing or not, it is still a part of the the whole acting. At this point free will versus determinism needs to be clarified. In my personal theological system, there is will but it is determined. So we will to act and we will act but we act based on the situation specifically. It is more like a reaction, it is one which we can think about but when the moment arises we may find we act contrary or other influences arise. We may find at the time of fighting we in fact turn and run.

There is no passiveness. In fact quite the contrary, it is maximum freedom.

I should mention I am not debating, but explaining my theology in respect to your useful questions. Should my tone or posts be seen differently by anyone reading this. :eek:
 
ManTimeForgot

ManTimeForgot

Temporally Challenged
Onkara said:
Love, anger, violence, passion are not separate from "God" from your Being or Self. The general view is that each emotion, person or object in this world has a separate existence quite independent from the whole. Further investigation has shown me that there is nothing which exists separately from the the whole. Love is still "God" or my Self. Violence/anger is still an expression which I am capable of, be it right or wrong.

So if you act to stop a sociopath from killing or not, it is still a part of the the whole acting. At this point free will versus determinism needs to be clarified. In my personal theological system, there is will but it is determined. So we will to act and we will act but we act based on the situation specifically. It is more like a reaction, it is one which we can think about but when the moment arises we may find we act contrary or other influences arise. We may find at the time of fighting we in fact turn and run.

There is no passiveness. In fact quite the contrary, it is maximum freedom.

I should mention I am not debating, but explaining my theology in respect to your useful questions. Should my tone or posts be seen differently by anyone reading this. :eek:
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Maximum or absolute freedom is synonymous with anarchy ( a complete lack of enforced laws) and is in practical terms no different than maximum or total domination (they still end up with a compromised will).


And you are given the presuppositions you presented still left with the problem of explaining when or if it is every appropriate to use violence. I certainly don't think it is appropriate to suggest that violence is never justifiable or should be considered.

if you try and generalize non-violent behavior when others are clearly willing to use violence, then you end up with a bunch of dead or hospitalized non-violent people when confronting violent people.

So I don't think the "worship and love others because they are all "God" rises to the level of practice." And if you don't practice something, then do you truly believe it?

MTF
 
Quintessence

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Something is worthy of respect and reverence (worship is too strong of a word) when one of the following are met:

1) Your existence depends on its existence; it instills humility
2) It fills you with a sense of awe and wonder; it has a magic to it
3) It is greater than yourself; it has abilities that you lack

There is nothing in the universe I can name which does not fit one of these three criteria. There is no place that god/deity is absent for me. Things that I offer focused respect and reverence (i.e. worship) are chosen on the basis of:

1) It has a more significant importance in my own life; it plays a strong role in shaping who and what I am
2) It has qualities or values that I find praiseworthy, worth aspiring to, or upholding within myself
3) It is something I just find particularly awesome, humbling, magical, etc.
 
IsmailaGodHasHeard

IsmailaGodHasHeard

Well-Known Member
Quintessence said:
Something is worthy of respect and reverence (worship is too strong of a word) when one of the following are met:

1) Your existence depends on its existence; it instills humility
2) It fills you with a sense of awe and wonder; it has a magic to it
3) It is greater than yourself; it has abilities that you lack

There is nothing in the universe I can name which does not fit one of these three criteria. There is no place that god/deity is absent for me. Things that I offer focused respect and reverence (i.e. worship) are chosen on the basis of:

1) It has a more significant importance in my own life; it plays a strong role in shaping who and what I am
2) It has qualities or values that I find praiseworthy, worth aspiring to, or upholding within myself
3) It is something I just find particularly awesome, humbling, magical, etc.
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Why is worship to strong of a word?
 
Quintessence

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
IsmailaGodHasHeard said:
Why is worship to strong of a word?
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I think I can put it this way:
When all of the universe is deity, it is not realistically possible to give all aspects of that universe the sort of active ritual devotion that I feel the word "worship" implies. I respect and revere all aspects of reality, but only a subset of those (based on that second set of criteria) do I actively worship. For example, I find the Ocean Spirits worthy of respect and reverence, but I do not actively worship them because I live in the middle of a continent. I work with what is local to me and what I can directly experience, and I cannot do that with Ocean Spirit living here. I can and do, however, worship the local Weather Spirits in my area, particularly Storm Spirit.

Note that for me, when I say "Spirit" I functionally mean "god/goddess" in others' understanding.

Worship is also a word that some people shy away from because it has unsavory connotations to them. Some see the word "worship" and think "blind, subservient sheep mentality" or "following dogmatic authority," at times "fearful groveling." That is not really what I was considering when I wrote my post, but it is something I notice, particularly within the Neopagan community. A lot of them don't like using that word.
 
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