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What Makes Jesus The Son Of God.The Son Of God Theory.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by bhakthi, Oct 27, 2005.

  1. Deut 13:1

    Deut 13:1 Well-Known Member

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    /signed. You beat me to it. :)
     
  2. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    Hi all, here is something else I was taught, another verse from Isaiah, your comments welcome.

    Isaiah 61:1-3 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek, he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound. To proclaim the acceptabale year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they may be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, tha he might be glorified.

    Compare to Luke 4:16-21 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up; and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised; To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

    Just an observation...Jesus only read the first half of the passage, and said that part is fulfilled in your ears. The second part, beginning with the day of vengeance and then giving beauty for ashes, etc. had and has not happened yet, so he stopped short with what he claimed WAS fulfilled by him at the time, the rest to be fulfilled at his second coming. Ok, feedback welcome, peace!
     
  3. Deut 13:1

    Deut 13:1 Well-Known Member

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    When you respond to what I posted about Isaiah 53, I might consider responding to this...

    If Jayhawker wants, he will correct your misconception. Here's the hebrew:

    רוּחַ אֲדֹנָי יְהוִה, עָלָי--יַעַן מָשַׁח יְהוָה אֹתִי לְבַשֵּׂר עֲנָוִים, שְׁלָחַנִי לַחֲבֹשׁ לְנִשְׁבְּרֵי-לֵב, לִקְרֹא לִשְׁבוּיִם דְּרוֹר, וְלַאֲסוּרִים פְּקַח-קוֹחַ
    לִקְרֹא שְׁנַת-רָצוֹן לַיהוָה, וְיוֹם נָקָם לֵאלֹהֵינוּ, לְנַחֵם, כָּל-אֲבֵלִים
    לָשׂוּם לַאֲבֵלֵי צִיּוֹן, לָתֵת לָהֶם פְּאֵר תַּחַת אֵפֶר שֶׁמֶן שָׂשׂוֹן תַּחַת אֵבֶל--מַעֲטֵה תְהִלָּה, תַּחַת רוּחַ כֵּהָה; וְקֹרָא לָהֶם אֵילֵי הַצֶּדֶק, מַטַּע יְהוָה לְהִתְפָּאֵר

    I don't know or care for that matter what Luke said. Jayhawker knows the NT much better then I, and might be able to shed light onto what Luke said.

    Also, just because something is mentioned twice doesn't mean it's suddenly validates something else. "Hear O Israel, The L-rd Our G-d, The L-rd is One". Just bcause it appears a lot doesn't mean that if Luke says it, it must be accurate.
     
  4. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    Just wanna say, Jesus and Budha taught differently on some things, Buddhists if I understand correctly do not all even believe in God, anyway there are differences in their teachings, so one may be true and the other not true. I tolerate other faiths, however, it should not be considered a negative thing to proclaim truth and to point out error. There is THE truth, absolute truth. Jesus was bold in saying no man comes to the father but by him. He either was telling the truth, or was lying. He said he must shed his blood for our sins, and we must believe in, or trust in him, in his sacrifice, that God was satisfied with the payment. He said if you believe, you have eternal life, and if you do not believe, you will not have it. He was clear on that. And I am not proselytizing here, I am just telling what he actually said.
     
  5. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member It's My Birthday!

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    You do not know this. What you know is that some Christian apologist who never met Jesus, and who was writing decades after the purported events, wrote a story in which "Jesus only read the first half of the passage".
     
  6. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    Isaiah was referring to Jesus and no one else in that passage.:)
     
  7. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member It's My Birthday!

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    You haven't a clue "what he actually said", and to believe otherwise is simply foolish.
     
  8. Deut 13:1

    Deut 13:1 Well-Known Member

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    Really? That's not what the scripture says... Why don't we stick to what the SCRIPTURE says instead of your wild imagination. The SCRIPTURE says it's a sign to King Ahaz, so what makes you believe otherwise besides your own opinion, which means absolutely nothing?

    I can't believe an Athiest and I are working together to educate your misconceptions.
     
  9. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    You're right, we obviously were not there. You have to rely on historical record for some context and background applicable to the subject. The Bible is no different. The New Testament Gospels and many of Paul's Epistles were written in the time period between 30 and 70 A.D., well within the lifetime of those who were eyewitnesses to said events. :)
     
  10. Deut 13:1

    Deut 13:1 Well-Known Member

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    Why don't you, as Jayhawker would say, back your claims up?

    *Note* Your opinion on something means nothing without scripture backing it up.
     
  11. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member It's My Birthday!

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    That is not the verdict of Biblical scholarship outside the ranks of Christian apologists, Mark is dated circa 65-80 CE with Matthew, Luke, and John and Acts dated to 80 CE or later.

    You presume that there were events and, therefore, eyewitnesses. Your presumptions are unfounded.
     
  12. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    Here are some messianic prophecies for you to no doubt dispute and misinterpret:

    Source: Biblical Prophecy Resource Center (http://www.bprc.org/topics/fulfill.html#header_1)

    Genesis 3:15, God said, “I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring. He will bruise your head, and you will bruise his heel.”

    The Messiah must...ProphecyFulfillment by JesusBear the reproaches and sin of others Isaiah 53:12Romans 15:3Be a priest Psalms 110:4Hebrews 5:5-6, 6:20, 7:15-17Enter Jerusalem on a donkey Zechariah 9:9Matthew 21:1-11; Mark 11:1-11; John 12:12-16Enter the Temple with authority Malachi 3:1Matthew 21:12; John 2:13-22
    The Messiah must...ProphecyFulfillment by JesusBe born in Bethlehem Micah 5:2Matthew 2:1; Luke 2:4-7Be adored by great persons Psalms 72:10-11Matthew 2:1-11Be annointed with the Spirit of God Isaiah 11:2, 61:1Matthew 3:16; John 3:34; Acts 10:38Be hated without cause Isaiah 49:7; Psalms 69:4John 15:24-25Be undesired and rejected by His own people Isaiah 53:2, 63:3; Psalms 69:8Mark 6:3; Luke 9:58; John 1:11, Be plotted against by Jews and Gentiles together Psalms 2:1-2Acts 4:27Be betrayed by a friend Psalms 41:9, 55:12-24Matthew 26:21-25, 47-50; John 13:18-21; Acts 1:16-18Be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver Zechariah 11:12Matthew 26:16Have his price given for a potter’s field Zechariah 11:13Matthew 27:7Be forsaken by His disciples Zechariah 13:7Matthew 26:31, 56Be struck on the cheek Micah 5:1Matthew 27:30Be spat on Isaiah 50:6Matthew 26:67, 27:30Be mocked Psalms 22:7-8Matthew 27:31, 39-44Be beaten Isaiah 50:6Matthew 26:67, 27:26, 30Be thirsty during His execution Psalms 22:15John 19:28Be given vinegar to quench that thirst Psalms 69:21Matthew 27:34Be considered a transgressor Isaiah 53:12Matthew 27:38Be buried with the rich when dead Isaiah 53:9Matthew 27:57-60Be sought after by Gentiles as well as Jews Isaiah 11:10, 42:1Acts 10:45Be accepted by the Gentiles Isaiah 11:10, 42:1-4, 49:1-12Matthew 12:21; Acts 10:45; Romans 15:9-12
     
  13. Deut 13:1

    Deut 13:1 Well-Known Member

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    I don't have time to address them all, especially, since you refuse to address my rebuttal, probably because you know I'm right. I'll humor you though, pick one, any one you want and let me know.
     
  14. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    Luke a historian in the first degree wrote Luke and Acts, and is very trustworthy to me.
     
  15. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    Rebuttal regarding what?
     
  16. Deut 13:1

    Deut 13:1 Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah 7:14 You refuse to address my points with any scripture as a backup.
     
  17. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    I believe Luke, I will gladly be called foolish, the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those who don't believe and the wisdom of God is as foolishness to man, so said Paul. You can say I dont know what they said, but Jesus loves me this I know, the Bible tells me so. He loves you too.
     
  18. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    No need to choose one when there are so many. But no hurry, take your time as you cross reference the Old Testament prophecy with the New Testament fulfillment by Jesus. :)
     
  19. spacemonkey

    spacemonkey Pneumatic Spiritualist

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    It seems that most of "prophecies" you referance come from the NT. It is easy for Jesus to meet the rquirements of a messiah if those requirements are set after his demise by his followers. That would be like letting the Branch Davidians explain why David Koresh meets the qualifications of a messiah.
     
  20. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    There is no reason for me to doubt that they didn't take place Deut. Oh, by the way there are biblical scholars who are not christian who would not agree with those dates you laid out.
     
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