What makes Jesus so special?

[lilithu]

Or, more correctly, the filtered and redacted story paints a picture of someone who ... So, for example, your Jesus shows little resemblance to the Jesus who treated his mother with disdain and who was, if one includes the infancy gospels, a rather nasty little kid.

Every person filters and redacts, everyone, whether it is scripture or just one's daily life experiences. It is our attempt to create coherent meaning out of the chaos of existence. What is the advantage of pointing this process out when it comes to Jesus as opposed to anything/anyone else?

The fact that he is self-contradictory btw, makes him all the more real to me. Only a fictional character fits nicely and neatly into preconceived behavioral patterns. It does bother me that he dissed his mother, just as it bothers me that Siddhartha left his wife and infant son. But such is life. It would be truly hypocritical of me to expect others to be perfect before I'm willing to recognize their greatness.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Every person filters and redacts, everyone, whether it is scripture or just one's daily life experiences. It is our attempt to create coherent meaning out of the chaos of existence. What is the advantage of pointing this process out when it comes to Jesus as opposed to anything/anyone else?

Because, when you filter out the "attempt to create coherent meaning", there's little or no 'there' there. There is no reason to believe that the authors of Mark or Matthew ever met the man, and much less reason to believe that the dialogue they put into his mouth half a century later is in any way authentic.

 

[lilithu]

Because, when you filter out the "attempt to create coherent meaning", there's little or no 'there' there. There is no reason to believe that the authors of Mark or Matthew ever met the man, and much less reason to believe that the dialogue they put into his mouth half a century later is in any way authentic.

There is the text, which is enough for me. Someone was moved enough by something to record what they did. And it's those ideals that resonate with me, not the historical accuracy. As Rabbi Lerner says, "Realism is an idolatry."

 

[Mathematician]

I prefer Ghandi over Jesus. At least he hoped for two religious orders working together. And he was murdered too. Sad endings relate.

 

[lilithu]

I prefer Ghandi over Jesus. At least he hoped for two religious orders working together. And he was murdered too. Sad endings relate.

Why choose one over the other? Gandhi said that he was heavily influenced by Jesus' teachings.

 

[Sunstone]

Jesus, through the story of his life and death, has become the embodiment of the idea that love and forgiveness can and will heal us and save us from ourselves. All we have to do is have the willingness and courage to love and forgive ourselves and each other even (and especially) in the face hatred and anger and resentment and rage. This is a very powerful and hopeful idea, people have experienced this idea as life-changing, and that makes Jesus a very special representative character.

Love can be, and often is, a solvent with the power to unglue everything erected in denial of it. That very much includes ungluing belief in the rightness of the political and social order, or in the authority of organized religion. Perhaps for that reason, the West has spent as much or more effort to insulate itself from Jesus's message as it has spent in accepting it.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Yes, I know, he died for our sins, but ( Christians are not going to like me today) haven't many people died to free others without prior knowledge that everything will be okay?

Since the OP has asked for what makes Jesus so special, I would suggest that those who would fictionalize his life, create their own thread for their fairy tale conjectures.

As for Jesus, I think Peter put it best:

Acts 2:29 "Brothers, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
" 'The Lord said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
35 until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet."
36 "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." NIV

Until you can produce a body for me, I'll continue to believe in the resurrection. You'll prove your point in a thrice if you'll just come up with that.

Other than that, I find your referencing my beliefs as mere "fables" exceptionally condescending and departing from the spirit of this board which is mutual respect. While I would never ask you to believe as I do, I do attempt to give your beliefs at least a modicum of respect and would ask the same from you.

 

[Halcyon]

Yeshua is special to me because i think that he (or those who used him as a voice for their beliefs) was a good teacher. I see truth in many of his teachings.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

As Rabbi Lerner says, "Realism is an idolatry."

Therefore?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Since the OP has asked for what makes Jesus so special, I would suggest that those who would fictionalize his life, ...

:biglaugh:

 

[Scuba Pete]

:biglaugh:

Your constant mocking of all things Christian only displays the bigotry you find so reprehensible in others. That it is allowed and even encouraged is just as reprehensible.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Other than that, I find your referencing my beliefs as mere "fables" exceptionally condescending and departing from the spirit of this board which is mutual respect. While I would never ask you to believe as I do, I do attempt to give your beliefs at least a modicum of respect and would ask the same from you.

I respect your right to believe in fables. I do not acknowledge your right to assert them as facts, unchallenged, and in a forum designated for "General Religious Debate". As for your whining and posturing as victim, I would never begrudge you your favorite theme.

 

[sojourner]

We can't prove the claims of the Church about Jesus. We can't claim that the Biblical picture of Jesus is historically accurate. We can't prove the resurrection. None of those things is particularly cogent to the OP. Jesus is special because he has proven to be an iconic figure of mercy, love and compassion, and a champion for the disenfranchised and downtrodden. Jesus is revelatory of the love of God to a large number of people. Jesus is the exemplar of what it means to be a complete human being.

The atheists will try to put up a smokescreen, saying that we can't "prove" any of these things. To them, proof is the lynchpin. To me, revelation is the lynchpin. Jesus' "specialness" does not depend upon empirical evidence.

 

[Abram]

Yes, I know, he died for our sins, but ( Christians are not going to like me today) haven't many people died to free others without prior knowledge that everything will be okay?



Could a mod please move this to religious debates please?

Go to church this Sunday (Easter) and they'll tell you why. It's not only his death, it's the resurrection...

 

[Buttercup]

I personally don't believe that Jesus died for our sins so that part is moot for me. I don't believe that God requires a blood sacrifice. And I don't believe that Jesus had foreknowledge that everything was going to be ok.

Jesus is so special to me because Jesus loved God with all his heart and all his soul and all his might AND he loved people as he loved himself. He saw the two commandments/laws as one and the same. There are very few people who have done that.

What Jesus are you talking about then? Certainly not the one of the NT?

 

[lilithu]

What Jesus are you talking about then? Certainly not the one of the NT?

Umm... yes?! :areyoucra

From Matthew 22:34-40:

Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

From Matthew 25:34-45:

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

 

[Scuba Pete]

I do not acknowledge your right to assert them as facts, unchallenged,

There are many here who disagree with me and with others CIVILLY. I don't seem to take issue with them. You however, do so with maximum condescension, innuendo and utter contempt. As long as you keep displaying this sort of hypocrisy and bigotry, you can be sure I will point it out. Again, you ruin the spirit of mutual respect that exists here for most of us on RF. We don't have to all agree, and it's great when the discussions are lively! But we should all be civil when we do disagree. Bullies are just as offensive whether they use sticks or words.

To keep this thread on topic... it has occurred to me that what makes Jesus so special was his ability to love those who mocked him. Jay is not the only one, and in the past I have been JUST as guilty.

 

[Quiddity]

Umm... yes?! :areyoucra

From Matthew 22:34-40:

Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

From Matthew 25:34-45:

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

Lilthu, I think she was specifically talking about this part:
I personally don't believe that Jesus died for our sins.
This is so foreign to how Christendom has understood Christ that I doubt any Christian will take this belief serious.

 

[joeboonda]

I love Jesus, He is my Saviour, mock me if you will, David said that the fool says in his heart there is no God. Everything about Jesus was prophesied in the OT, hundreds of prophecies, specific, precise prophesies, the odds of fulfilling 8 of which is staggering. The writings of the NT are the most copied and diligently kept writings of any other documents of ancient history. The disciples were eyewitnesses and said they did not make up fables about Jesus, and died proclaiming their truth and trustworthiness. I believe in Jesus, and His free gift of everlasting life. Jesus said He came here to die, that the scriptures be fulfilled, HE CAME TO DIE! For us. To not only pay for our sins, but to give us HIS righteousness in place of ours which is as filthy rags, so that we may live in the presence of Holy God. He did not come to just show us how to love and live, but the main purpose HE said, was to die for us. That is my belief, and that is what the Bible says. That is the authority I base my beliefs on. I won't belittle or riducule others beliefs, I may debate them amicably, and I expect the same in return. I just hope folks have not hardened their heart, nor closed their mind or deafened their ears or closed their eyes so far that they might hear and understand and accept this good news. We all have sinned, how else can we appear before a Holy God without being utterly consumed? He that has broken the law in one small point is guilty of all James says, we have ONLY JESUS to turn to, He is the only name given under Heaven by which men may be saved, HE paid for our sins, no one else has or can. That is the gospel and just part of why Jesus is so important to me, and everyone. One day, every knee shall bow, and evey tongue confess that Jesus is Lord, I'll go ahead and bow to him now, and thank Him for loving me and dying for me.

 

[lilithu]

Lilthu, I think she was specifically talking about this part:
I personally don't believe that Jesus died for our sins.
This is so foreign to how Christendom has understood Christ that I doubt any Christian will take this belief serious.

Well, first I'm not Christian and the OP did not state that I had to be Christian in order to respond to the question. I find it strange given that I revere Jesus but do not worship him, that this would generate more disdain from those who do worship him than someone who dismisses Jesus completely.

Second, I know Christians who do not believe that Jesus died for our sins. I know them at my church. I know them at Georgetown. Heck, I've met a few on RF tho I can't remember who and probably wouldn't say (wouldn't put them on the spot where they had to defend themselves here) even if I did remember. I don't believe that God requires a blood sacrifice. Sorry, but that simply does not jive with the idea of a loving, forgiving, compassionate God. I know that some say that the loving, forgiving, compassionate part comes from Him supplying the sacrifice Himself, but that still does not explain why He would need one in the first place. And yes, I do know Christians who believe the same.

And as Ori pointed out in the OP, if Jesus had known that he was going to be ressurected that wouldn't be much of a sacrifice at all. It would be a farce. He did not know. He had faith. I believe that Jesus was so faithful to God that he taught the word of God, lived his life in God, and died/was martyred because he was true to God. It was not for our sins; it was for the revolutionary vision of God's kingdom here on earth, with everyone loving each other as they love God and themselves. It was through his faithfulness and the faithfulness that he inspired in others by his example that the Christ was ressurected as the living embodiment of God in the hearts of those who have faith. As someone else in this thread said, it was the ressurection (ie - the result of faith) that is the miracle. The death by itself is simply a tragedy. And yes, I do know Christians who believe the same.