What Makes an Atheist an Atheist?

[SalixIncendium]

Yes, I know an atheist is defined as one who has a lack of belief in any God.

But what is the test to be recognized as an atheist by others?

If an atheist behaves in such a manner that aligns with the morals Jesus' teaches even though they claim to be an atheist, shouldn't they be called a Christian?

According to Wikipedia, there are 500 million atheists in the world. How do we know whether someone who claims to be an atheist secretly believes there is likely a divine power, but claims to be an atheist strictly to avoid ridicule for believing as such?

If we were to weed out these fake atheists, would the 500 million number significantly change?

 

[Secret Chief]

The ability to proofread?

 

[SalixIncendium]

The ability to proofread?

Believe it or not, I do look over my posts before I hit the post button and don't see errors until the text form changes. I don't know why that is, but it's my understanding that this condition is not unique to me.

I typically have the typos changed within minutes, but that doesn't do any good with eagle-eye members such as yourself.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

there is no valid test.
However I expect that there are just as many non believing religious people, as there are believing atheists.
There are perhaps just as many social pressures to conform to group beliefs, for atheists as for religious societies.

Ultimately what we believe is personal. and for some between God and themselves alone.

 

[Erebus]

The litmus test for atheism is typically presented as something like this: "Do you believe in the existence of one or more gods?" If the answer is No, you're an atheist.

This is a decent rule of thumb but I think it should be tweaked slightly. That question can get a little trickier when you factor in more unconventional forms of theism such as certain forms of pantheism, autotheism and the various monarchs or religious leaders worshipped as deities throughout history. In those cases, the existence of the universe or deified person isn't usually disputed. The important question is whether or not somebody views them as gods.

So I would amend the litmus test to something more like this: "Do you believe in the existence of something that you would consider a god." If the answer is No, you're an atheist.

 

[Vouthon]

If an atheist behaves in such a manner that aligns with the morals Jesus' teaches even though they claim to be an atheist, shouldn't they be called a Christian?

I've known quite a few self-identifying "atheist/agnostic Christians", even in the pews at my church, who derive value from the ethical framework and participation in the cultic traditions but don't actually believe in anything 'supernatural'.

'Cultural Catholicism' is a live phenomenon (indeed, only 27% of the Dutch Catholics are theistic, 55% as an ietsist, deist or agnostic and 17% as atheist).

For that reason, I tend to 'separate' in my mind "theism" from "Christianity". I am happy to accept someone as a Christian who isn't actually a theist, on the basis of his/her own social identity, ethical formation and participation in religious ritual.

Ideally, 'theism' and 'Christianity' should overlap or coincide (doctrinally) - but many 'cultural Catholics' contribute immensely to the good of the local parish and wider church community, and I think we'd be the poorer without them personally.

I am reminded of JRR Tolkien's words on the inherent 'truth' of mythology: "After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear.”

One of the defining characteristics of human culture - since the days of the paleolithic cave-art - has been our facility for creating meaning, social identity and moral systems through the articulation of mythical stories and complex symbols.

That some atheists too can 'appreciate' this human need and actively participate in it for 'heritage' or ethical/mystical reasons - is something I welcome in the individuals I know who are in this position.

The philosopher Philip Ball declares himself to be a 'Christian' religious fictionalist. He believes God to be a 'fiction', along with the resurrection of Christ, but attends church, prays (for his own mental wellbeing), reads the New Testament for moral edification and aspires to lead a Christlike life. Here he is writing about his framework:

Believers without belief - TLS

I'm cool with it, even though I'm a "true believer" myself.

 

[SalixIncendium]

The litmus test for atheism is typically presented as something like this: "Do you believe in the existence of one or more gods?" If the answer is No, you're an atheist.

This is a decent rule of thumb but I think it should be tweaked slightly. That question can get a little trickier when you factor in more unconventional forms of theism such as certain forms of pantheism, autotheism and the various monarchs or religious leaders worshipped as deities throughout history. In those cases, the existence of the universe or deified person isn't usually disputed. The important question is whether or not somebody views them as gods.

So I would amend the litmus test to something more like this: "Do you believe in the existence of something that you would consider a god." If the answer is No, you're an atheist.

Fair enough, but what if one isn't being forthcoming about what they believe? What if, as I gave an example of in the OP, their behaviors or moral values don't align with that of the typical atheist? What if they bow their head during an invocation? What if place their right hand on the Bible while swearing an oath? What if they hold up a Bible, but turn it right side up? How do we weed out these fakes?

 

[Mock Turtle]

I'm mostly an atheist with a foot in the door so as to be a bit agnostic (as regards a creative force), but if my beliefs and morality coincide with that of any particular religious belief then that is what it is - a coincidence, and nothing more. I think many might want to look further into our history, and before religions became established, to recognise that morality didn't just arrive with religions. Unless one can just dismiss all that we see regarding other life forms.

 

[Secret Chief]

Believe it or not, I do look over my posts before I hit the post button and don't see errors until the text form changes. I don't know why that is, but it's my understanding that this condition is not unique to me.

I typically have the typos changed within minutes, but that doesn't do any good with eagle-eye members such as yourself.

I know, I should get a life.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I know, I should get a life.

Why? If you enjoy this one, you already have one.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes, I know an atheist is defined as one who has a lack of belief in any God.

But what is the test to be recognized as an atheist by others?

If an atheist behaves in such a manner that aligns with the morals Jesus' teaches even though they claim to be an atheist, shouldn't they be called a Christian?

According to Wikipedia, there are 500 million atheists in the world. How do we know whether someone who claims to be an atheist secretly believes there is likely a divine power, but claims to be an atheist strictly to avoid ridicule for believing as such?

If we were to weed out these fake atheists, would the 500 million number significantly change?

On a personal level, the test is declaration. If someone says he's an atheist, who am I to argue? For awhile I thought differently, even argued, but my thinking on it has evolved.

 

[Sunstone]

Theists create atheists by insisting that mere belief or disbelief in deity is more important than ant dung. In truth, whether or not you believe in deity is of no spiritual significance or impact whatsoever. But that's only my unvarnished opinion -- I could be wrong, as unlikely as that is.

I know this because I myself am a staunch and unflinching atheist on Tuesday mornings and Thursday afternoons (by appointment only).

 

[Koldo]

Yes, I know an atheist is defined as one who has a lack of belief in any God.

But what is the test to be recognized as an atheist by others?

If an atheist behaves in such a manner that aligns with the morals Jesus' teaches even though they claim to be an atheist, shouldn't they be called a Christian?

I don't think so. Atheists and Christians can share the same views over morality.

According to Wikipedia, there are 500 million atheists in the world. How do we know whether someone who claims to be an atheist secretly believes there is likely a divine power, but claims to be an atheist strictly to avoid ridicule for believing as such?

If we were to weed out these fake atheists, would the 500 million number significantly change?

I find it more likely for an atheist to claim to be a theist to avoid any social repercussions.

 

[Erebus]

Fair enough, but what if one isn't being forthcoming about what they believe? What if, as I gave an example of in the OP, their behaviors or moral values don't align with that of the typical atheist? What if they bow their head during an invocation? What if place their right hand on the Bible while swearing an oath? What if they hold up a Bible, but turn it right side up? How do we weed out these fakes?

I wrote out a mini essay previously. On reflection, I think I can approach this in a much more succinct fashion:

How do we weed out these fakes?

Who cares?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Fair enough, but what if one isn't being forthcoming about what they believe? What if, as I gave an example of in the OP, their behaviors or moral values don't align with that of the typical atheist? What if they bow their head during an invocation? What if place their right hand on the Bible while swearing an oath? What if they hold up a Bible, but turn it right side up? How do we weed out these fakes?

Why would you need to?
Do you want to go on a crusade to weed out gay people pretending to be straight?
I'm kind of at a loss as to what you're driving at here. I thought it was a joke thread, then realised it wasn't.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

If an atheist behaves in such a manner that aligns with the morals Jesus' teaches even though they claim to be an atheist, shouldn't they be called a Christian?

Absolutely not. This seems a ridiculous proposition to me. Speaking as someone whose behaviour roughly aligns with Christian morality...as would plenty of humanists (not that I identify as such)...it strikes me as ridiculous and somewhat insulting to talk about people who 'claim to be' atheists.
I'm an atheist because I don't believe in God, and I don't think Jesus...if he existed...was anything other than the son of a human.

It has nothing to do with whether or not I love my neighbour.

 

[Polymath257]

Yes, I know an atheist is defined as one who has a lack of belief in any God.

But what is the test to be recognized as an atheist by others?

If an atheist behaves in such a manner that aligns with the morals Jesus' teaches even though they claim to be an atheist, shouldn't they be called a Christian?

No. Traditionally, Christianity is defined by belief in a God (among other doctrines).

Morality can be shared even if the doctrines are not accepted. The *origin* of the morality would be in dispute, though.

According to Wikipedia, there are 500 million atheists in the world. How do we know whether someone who claims to be an atheist secretly believes there is likely a divine power, but claims to be an atheist strictly to avoid ridicule for believing as such?

If we were to weed out these fake atheists, would the 500 million number significantly change?

I suppose we might be able to develop a brain scan to determine whether someone is an atheist or a theist, but I don't see the point.

 

[ChristineM]

Yes, I know an atheist is defined as one who has a lack of belief in any God.

But what is the test to be recognized as an atheist by others?

If an atheist behaves in such a manner that aligns with the morals Jesus' teaches even though they claim to be an atheist, shouldn't they be called a Christian?

According to Wikipedia, there are 500 million atheists in the world. How do we know whether someone who claims to be an atheist secretly believes there is likely a divine power, but claims to be an atheist strictly to avoid ridicule for believing as such?

If we were to weed out these fake atheists, would the 500 million number significantly change?

Not sure bringing morality into the questions is meaningful. Most atheists i know are more moral than any of the Christians i known (except 1, no coment), more caring of the wider community atheist or not.

Human morality was around long before JC, in my view christianity taints morality and bends it to their purpose.

But thinking about your OP, perhaps you are right, i would consider a claimed atheist who lowers themself to Jesus's standard of morality as suspect.

 

[ChristineM]

Believe it or not, I do look over my posts before I hit the post button and don't see errors until the text form changes. I don't know why that is, but it's my understanding that this condition

Weeheee, i am not alone, welcome to the club.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes, I know an atheist is defined as one who has a lack of belief in any God.

But what is the test to be recognized as an atheist by others?

If an atheist behaves in such a manner that aligns with the morals Jesus' teaches even though they claim to be an atheist, shouldn't they be called a Christian?

According to Wikipedia, there are 500 million atheists in the world. How do we know whether someone who claims to be an atheist secretly believes there is likely a divine power, but claims to be an atheist strictly to avoid ridicule for believing as such?

If we were to weed out these fake atheists, would the 500 million number significantly change?

We don't know. There's a lot of "fake" christians who say they are christian but they are actually an atheist. They just go through the motions until they get to a point later in life that they no longer want to lie about who they are.

Also, when I think of atheist, I think of someone who does not believe in deities: "Zues, Jehovah, Athena, I don't know, Yamaya" not someone who doesn't believe in a divine power. A divine power isn't a deity but described as a force or an emotion or something similar. So, many atheist can believe in a divine power just not Jehovah, Zues, and Athena, et cetera.