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what makes a religion?

Discussion in 'Seekers Circle' started by kerravon, May 22, 2019.

  1. kerravon

    kerravon Anti-subjugator

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    I am having great trouble figuring out the difference between religion, philosophy, ideology, politics, policy, belief, ideas, logic, strategy, war.

    Before the 2003 Iraq war, George W Bush said "I believe God wants everyone to be free". I believe that too! I would like to be in a religion where people believe that God wants them to democratize the world, by force of arms whenever logic dictates. But I don't want to be in a religion that has an unchangeable, unquestionable holy book. I would like a holy book that is group-sourced and updated as new information becomes available. A bit like Wikipedia in fact. Perhaps this board could produce such a document collectively?

    I also believe that a computer simulation is a great model to explain how the universe could have been created. And I believe Earth should be treated as a strategy game, with the goal of world freedom which will then be followed by true world peace as opposed to world non-combat.

    Any suggestions?
     
  2. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Logic? Logic is so much like religion it's hard to tell the difference?

    What is the world coming to these days?
     
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  3. kerravon

    kerravon Anti-subjugator

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    I would like the holy book to be logical. Based on certain assumptions that are declared upfront. E.g. "women have the right to not be raped" and "Uday Hussein was abducting girls off the street and raping them". So logic dictates that God wants us to go to war with Uday and anyone else protecting him. Something along those lines. A logic-based religion, if that is not an oxymoron (I'm not sure, it's all a bit of a jumble to me).
     
  4. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    Religion is something that constitute essence of a human being, a 'mechanism' left by creator making human soul seeking its origin.
     
  5. kerravon

    kerravon Anti-subjugator

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    I'm not sure I understand that. But I wish for my soul (assuming something like that exists) to be working in cooperation with others to have worldwide secular capitalist liberal democracy, as any decent god would want (in my opinion). Is this the basis for a religion? I am totally confused.
     
  6. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    Dictionaries are of no help?

    It sounds as if what you want is a manifesto and not a holy book like the Bible (considered sacred text and not to be edited by humans not divinely inspired)

    Interesting idea (would require the cooperation of the people who run the board)

    Like the movie The Matrix?

    I don't think it's all that complicated. Cooperation (in a good cause) works. Competition doesn't.
     
  7. kerravon

    kerravon Anti-subjugator

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    Nope. It's all gobbledygook to me. I've tried reading wikipedia on philosophy etc, but it doesn't help. It's all a big jumble to me. Perhaps I have learning difficulties.

    I see. Thanks. And what happens if I add a rider at the front of the manifesto that says "God probably approves of this manifesto"? Does that make it a bona fide religion?

    Yes, but a much better movie is "The Thirteenth Floor". Far less fantasy involved. A more plausible model except for travel between dimensions on death.
     
  8. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    You can call most any belief system a religion if you want to but if you call it a religion people will expect it to be like a traditional religion -- and that would lead to misunderstandings.

    If global harmony is the aim, you might consider allowing people to believe whatever they choose about God, atheist, agnostic or theist, as long as their moral principles are aligned with those in your manifesto.
     
  9. kerravon

    kerravon Anti-subjugator

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    Ok, thanks for that idea! So what I'm after is a manifesto of morals, not a traditional religion. I was thinking that we could say that humans are a product of their genes and their environment, neither of which is actually their fault, so when we are fighting our enemy we should still love them. Taking that from Christianity. But I am against treating any of these "holy books" as dogmas. I believe that every bit of writing should be subject to scientific inquiry. So the moral principle is to be anti-dogma. Although I'm not sure if that counts as a "moral". You can add "moral" to the list of confusing words. :)
     
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  10. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    It’s going to be impossible for you to obtain what you are seeking. You have closed your eyes, and refuse to open them.

    But what you seek exists. Should you continue to seek, in earnest, with a heart for truth, you will eventually find it. No doubt. (Your eyes WILL BE opened)

    But do not succumb to create your own religion with a god in your image. Many have already done that, and all have failed.
     
  11. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    It is a basis for traditional religions that tied to culture, traditions and history of particular people or region.
     
  12. dingdao

    dingdao The eternal Tao cannot be told - Tao Te Ching

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    Try:
    What to expect at death - Buddhism refrains from this
    A workable philosophy for living.
     
  13. Neutral Name

    Neutral Name Active Member

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    To me, religion is organized. it is a set of beliefs which people have agreed upon in reference to a deity or deities. Philosophy is the belief that certain life principles are true. It has no belief in deities. Ideology is someone's personal philosophy. That is, it is what they believe to be true whether or not other people believe as they do. Usually, ideology has to do with politics or economics. Politics is beliefs about how people should be governed--who should do the governing, what the rules are, laws, etc. without religion necessarily attached but can have a religious basis. Can I stop here and ask you to look up policy, belief, ideas, logic, strategy and war? You can find them all at Dictionary by Merriam-Webster: America's most-trusted online dictionary. It's a decent dictionary. It's a decent dictionary.
     
  14. kerravon

    kerravon Anti-subjugator

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    "You must not eat pork" sounds like a religion, a philosophy, an ideology, politics, policy, maybe a belief, an idea, probably not logic, and may require strategy or war to implement. It all remains a great jumble for me.
     
  15. Neutral Name

    Neutral Name Active Member

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    I actually think that is the perfect representation of religion. I believe that Rabbis wrote that and that God had nothing to do with it or the rest of Leviticus. Of course, religion is based on philosophy, ideology, etc. because men decided what should be in their holy books. It was their ideologies. However, I think that philosophy has a basis in truth where religion and ideology don't necessarily.
     
  16. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    according to the tax man....

    a doctrine of belief....a list of items

    a congregation of twelve

    weekly gathering of followers

    and likely a few other details
    needed that tax exemptions can be gained by the minister
     
  17. Neutral Name

    Neutral Name Active Member

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    LOL. I think that is the perfect definition for today's religions.
     
  18. Callisto

    Callisto Active Member

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    Perhaps something that might help is adjusting your approach to religion. You're coming at it from an assumption that all religions are orthodox, i.e a central sacred text with dictates regarding belief. Subsequently, it's difficult finding one that sufficiently aligns with your personal perspective on issues. So, it might be worth examining religions that are orthopraxic, i.e. foremost concerned with maintaining proper action and less with how/what one believes. Such religions can but do not always have central texts.
     
  19. Notthedarkweb

    Notthedarkweb Member

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    I don't know much about the philosophy of religion, but I do know something about the philosophy of science, and I think this can inform this somewhat.

    One of the most popular modern philosophical traditions in this field is that deriving from Kuhn and Lakatos' work. I especially find Lakatos and Feyeraband's work to be brilliant. So, to put it simply, scientific disciplines have different standards of proof, different methodological principles and different means by which it progresses historically through Kuhnian scientific revolutions. None of these paradigms are more correct than the other and are appropriate to the discipline it serves completely until another paradigm that can better reflect that discipline' s practice arises replaces the former.

    This is sort of how I see religion. Different religions have different conceptions and "methodologies" of themselves, and trying to find some universal meta-religion or principle to conform to is just futile for us.
     
  20. Notthedarkweb

    Notthedarkweb Member

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    A vast amount of religious philosophy is done in the analytical tradition, from Platinga to McIntyre. I am certain there are others too. I am a follower of Nyaya, a school of Hindu thought that believed clarification of false knowledge was an essential part of liberation. Therefore it formulated a highly robust form of intuitionist logic. Similar to Aristotlean logic, but perhaps more practical. Anyhow, Quine's Two dogmas of empiricism shows that logical reductionism is futile since all statements that are considered in the form of formal logic essentially require a posteori or empirical perception. Teleologies don't really exist, so I don't see how logic can found any philosophy or world view.
     
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