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what makes a Christian?

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Well, the Jewish idea of messiah is significantly different from Christians. There doesn't exist in Judiasm any notion that the Messiah will die and rise and save us from our sins. Basically for us, the messiah is simply the man who will rule from Jerusalem during the messianic era -- the last era of the earth before the resurrection... He will usher in this era of worldwide peace, and bring all the Jews out in the world back to the land of Israel. He is a very earthly leader. His kingdom is of THIS world.
OK, so what values does the kingdom you speak about hold for its citizens? Jesus did tell his followers to pray to God for God's kingdom to come to the earth. "Let your kingdom come, let Your will be done on the earth as it is in heaven." Perhaps you remember that. So how would the kingdom you speak of be effected, meaning -- under the Mosaic Law (if you believe that it was written and agreed upon by the initial recipients) -- there were things the nation were supposed to adhere to.
 

DNB

Christian
No...

No...

No...

That's called "Christianity" :rolleyes:
why 3 'No', you disagree with all the points?
Secondly, don't ask a question, if you can't put forth a reasonable argument to a contrarian view to yours.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member
I agree with this but you won't get much traction about this belief on this forum
:)
I know, indeed not many think like this

I said a few days ago that I don't spend time trying to figure out whether or not other people are going to heaven one day
:cool:
Neither do I. I have never thought about it even (If I recall my past thoughts correctly)

that's between them and God and I have enough to worry about just trying to keep my own self straight!
:cool:
Wow, exactly my thoughts. And I rather change myself, also not easy, but at least I am open to change. If I can change myself, then others can also change themselves, and they don't need me

Love, Peace and Blessings to you
 

Eddi

Believer in God
Premium Member
Being a Christian primarily requires repentance - one must be convicted of their sin first, in order to appreciate the need of salvation or a saviour.
Yes

You're right with that

One must subsequently believe that God is merciful, in order to accept the fact that by His grace, He has offered a means towards salvation that doesn't require perfection, but mercy. Salvation is by faith - faith that God is loving, compassionate and merciful, and that there was a man on earth who loved his Father (God) with all his heart, mind and soul - Christ was perfect.
He was more than just a man, he is also God

And, for this reason, Jesus has been exalted to God's right-hand side so that he may receive worship and lordship for solely his reverence and devotion towards his Maker, God the father.
No, being at God's right hand side is metaphor for him being co-equal with God

He didn't earn that position

He has always been that way

And fourthly, it is blasphemy to claim that Jesus was God - God does not either obey or love Himself, in order to attain to perfection, in order to placate His own wrath - principles that are nothing less than complete delirium.
Wrong

So very wrong I had to say "no" to it three times!
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
OK, so what values does the kingdom you speak about hold for its citizens? Jesus did tell his followers to pray to God for God's kingdom to come to the earth. "Let your kingdom come, let Your will be done on the earth as it is in heaven." Perhaps you remember that. So how would the kingdom you speak of be effected, meaning -- under the Mosaic Law (if you believe that it was written and agreed upon by the initial recipients) -- there were things the nation were supposed to adhere to.
I'm not really sure what you are fishing for. the Kingdom of Heaven is simply wherever God is obeyed. The Messianic kingdom has its capitol in Jerusalem and is an earthly kingdom. The same mosaic laws would apply then as now. It is not until the resurrection that the New Covenant comes into play, which exhibits a fundamental change in human nature.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I'm not really sure what you are fishing for. the Kingdom of Heaven is simply wherever God is obeyed. The Messianic kingdom has its capitol in Jerusalem and is an earthly kingdom. The same mosaic laws would apply then as now. It is not until the resurrection that the New Covenant comes into play, which exhibits a fundamental change in human nature.
I'm asking how you incorporate your desires or thoughts with any scriptural backup. You say the Kingdom of Heaven is simply wherever God is obeyed. Where is that, by the way?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
God is the one who will send the messiah.
He will send the messiah, you say. I know some believed or maybe still do that Mendel Schneerson might have been the messiah, they may still be hoping he will be resurrected, which is an interesting point. Wondering what you think about that. But the basic question is, how would you know if someone is the messiah?
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Did I miss any posts about the bible being fine with slavery? I may have missed the post - if so, sorry and can you please repeat it? Thanks. Please include verses from the bible. Thanks again.
 
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IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
He will send the messiah, you say. I know some believed or maybe still do that Mendel Schneerson might have been the messiah, they may still be hoping he will be resurrected, which is an interesting point. Wondering what you think about that. But the basic question is, how would you know if someone is the messiah?
Mendel Shneerson was not the messiah -- he did not complete the tasks of the Messiah, so just like Jesus, he is ruled out of the competition. There are some who love him so much, that they are having a hard time accepting that he is dead, just like what happened with Jesus. Chabadniks are wonderful people, but any who still claim that Shneerson is the messiah are engaging in heresy. The do not worship the Rebbe as a god, so it is not some other religion, and they are not apostate, the way that Jews who worship Jesus are apostate to us.

The basic answer is that we will know the messiah because he will do the tasks that are prophesied for the Messiah to do, such as usher in an era or world peace, such as bring all the Jews back to the Land, such as rule from Jerusalem.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
So it must be okay since it was fine back then.
It depends how you view slavery anyway. When one nation goes against another nation, as an example, people can kill one another because that's what they think is right or what they are commanded to do by their national leaders. There's nothing you can do to release yourself from slavery to various factors, including your body. Poor people in Turkey with the earthquake there are slaves to the circumstances. Sorry we don't see eye to eye on this issue. Take care and bye. Enjoy yourself in this life if that's what you want.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Mendel Shneerson was not the messiah -- he did not complete the tasks of the Messiah, so just like Jesus, he is ruled out of the competition. There are some who love him so much, that they are having a hard time accepting that he is dead, just like what happened with Jesus. Chabadniks are wonderful people, but any who still claim that Shneerson is the messiah are engaging in heresy. The do not worship the Rebbe as a god, so it is not some other religion, and they are not apostate, the way that Jews who worship Jesus are apostate to us.

The basic answer is that we will know the messiah because he will do the tasks that are prophesied for the Messiah to do, such as usher in an era or world peace, such as bring all the Jews back to the Land, such as rule from Jerusalem.
Here's a question for you -- well, actually a couple of questions. There would have to be an agreement on who is a Jew, wouldn't that be so? And of course many, many Jews aren't going to live in Israel, and seems pretty far off that they will pack it up and go to live in Israel soon. So I guess the supposed messiah would have to be pretty convincing to get all those who are legitimate Jews to go live in Israel.
There are those Christians who believe Jesus is the Messiah but do not worship him. And if you read the Christian Greek Scriptures (commonly known as the New Testament, a misnomer...but anyway that's the way it is) you will see that Jesus had a rather robust argument with those Jews who declared he called himself God, which he did not but yes, there are those called Christians who believe Jesus is/was God. That is not true. They might even say his name is YHWH (Yahweh or Jehovah depending), but that is also not true. So it all depends on one's inclination and how God leads a person.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Mendel Shneerson was not the messiah -- he did not complete the tasks of the Messiah, so just like Jesus, he is ruled out of the competition. There are some who love him so much, that they are having a hard time accepting that he is dead, just like what happened with Jesus. Chabadniks are wonderful people, but any who still claim that Shneerson is the messiah are engaging in heresy. The do not worship the Rebbe as a god, so it is not some other religion, and they are not apostate, the way that Jews who worship Jesus are apostate to us.

The basic answer is that we will know the messiah because he will do the tasks that are prophesied for the Messiah to do, such as usher in an era or world peace, such as bring all the Jews back to the Land, such as rule from Jerusalem.
I just wonder -- do you know if some are still guarding his tomb lest he come out? There's a big picture (large billboard) of M. Schneerson in my neighborhood where many orthodox Jews live. Plus several chabads. Now that you mention it about going back to Israel, well I guess it would have to be pretty well publicized and all the Jews would have to listen, hmm?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Mendel Shneerson was not the messiah -- he did not complete the tasks of the Messiah, so just like Jesus, he is ruled out of the competition. There are some who love him so much, that they are having a hard time accepting that he is dead, just like what happened with Jesus. Chabadniks are wonderful people, but any who still claim that Shneerson is the messiah are engaging in heresy. The do not worship the Rebbe as a god, so it is not some other religion, and they are not apostate, the way that Jews who worship Jesus are apostate to us.

The basic answer is that we will know the messiah because he will do the tasks that are prophesied for the Messiah to do, such as usher in an era or world peace, such as bring all the Jews back to the Land, such as rule from Jerusalem.
Just reading a little about M. Scheerson's grave and pilgrimage to view his grave in Queens, NY. 25 years after his death, crowds flock to Chabad rebbe's grave | The Times of Israel
When I lived in NY there were billboards proclaiming M. Schneerson as Moshiach. Well, evidently he wasn't. Now there are several reasons for that -- 1. he died. 2. he's still in the grave, although I have read, believe it or not, there are those chabadniks who think he did not die -- and 3. the Jews are actually building chabads in the world outside of Israel, it's an interesting idea that there is no real discussion about this from those who believe the messiah is yet to come to others and gathering the Jews, so many I know who are Jews but couldn't care less, in fact are like many here who claim to be of various religions -- they attend services, celebrate holidays, but couldn't care less about what God thinks or says. But thanks anyway and have a good day.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Here's a question for you -- well, actually a couple of questions. There would have to be an agreement on who is a Jew, wouldn't that be so?
Not really. Jewish law is very clear on who is a Jew: one born of a Jewish mom or one who has gone through formal conversion to Judaism and is thus adopted into the People. Non-Jews can have whatever opinions they want, but their opinions will not change reality.

And of course many, many Jews aren't going to live in Israel, and seems pretty far off that they will pack it up and go to live in Israel soon.

Right. So obviously the messiah has not yet come.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Just reading a little about M. Scheerson's grave
I'm sorry, but you keep going on about the Rebbe. Here is ALL I have to say about him. He was a great and righteous Jew, whom I admired very much. He is not the messiah. And now he is gone, so he is no longer an interest. You might try looking for a Chabadnik to discuss him with.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
No amount of apologies make slavery okay.
Hopefully she can answer since she also believes the messiah is yet to come, etc. I guess you don't equate this with slavery because of that which is historically recognized in the history of the Israelites, but that's ok. Have a good evening.
 
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