What makes a Christian?

[dybmh]

It's not my intent to stir the pot, but I have to question whether Wikipedia is a reliable source or not. I've used Wikipedia as a source in the past and have been told by several people that it isn't a reliable source. What do you think? My college-aged children told me that they weren't allowed to use Wiki as a source when they wrote a paper. They were told that it wasn't considered a reliable source.

A totally fair comment. If Wikipedia is inaccurate, and the source of the 41,000 number is also inaccurate, then the correct conclusion is "I don't know how many denominations there are."

Still, the 41,000 figure has been debunked. The source itself describes the method as creating denominations in spite of common beliefs and traditions.

 

[ChristineM]

Pebbles on the beach are highly uniform. It would be incorrect to imply otherwise.

Well. Sure. List of Christian denominations - Wikipedia

There's no where near 45,000 entries in this list. The entire article has less than 15,000 words.

Pebbles on a beach are each and every one different, weight, size, shape.

Of course there is nowhere near 45000, it is extremely incomplete, notice the rider

"The following is not a complete list"​

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Pebbles on the beach are highly uniform. It would be incorrect to imply otherwise.

Well. Sure. List of Christian denominations - Wikipedia

There's no where near 45,000 entries in this list. The entire article has less than 15,000 words.

From your link;

The following is not a complete list, but aims to provide a comprehensible overview of the diversity among denominations of Christianity, ecumenical organizations, and Christian ideologies not necessarily represented by specific denominations. Only those Christian denominations, ideologies and organizations with Wikipedia articles will be listed in order to ensure that all entries on this list are notable and verifiable.

Honestly, I could care less. The correct answer to 'How many Christian denominations are there?' is 'Lots'.

45000, 4500...even changing the order of magnitude twice and getting to 450 doesn't change that.

 

[Wildswanderer]

What are, in your opinion, the defining characteristics of a Christian?

There are 41,000+ denominations in Christianity. That fact alone shows that there have to be a lot of differences between them. But are there still communalities left? Has the claim to be a Christian any value any more?
Being an atheist answers exactly one question and nothing more. Does being a Christian tell me more?

It's really not that complicated:

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Correct, there isn't, its over 45000,
Quick Facts About Global Christianity - Center for the Study of Global Christianity
Now getting close to 50,000 and increase at around 5 new denominations per week.

There are also 200+ different versions of the bible in the English language, each is different, some considerably so. Who knows how many in other languages.

Yes there are a lot of denominations of Christianity in the world , i wonder why some people are so keen to deny it

I'm more inclined to think that the statistics you posted are correct or at least closer to the actual amount than those with a lower amount. That being said, I can't honestly say which one is correct and which one is way off the mark. What I do know, though, is that there is a great deal of division within the Christian Church, and there are a number of Christian denominations that profess to be the "real church" while claiming that all other Christians hold false doctrines and misinterpret the Bible. It's very common for Christians to argue and bicker with each other about what the Bible actually teaches, and it's very common not to get a straight answer if you ask a group of Christians the same exact theological question. Why in the world do Christians expect non-Christians to trust anything they say about the Bible, God, or anything else related to their Christian faith if they themselves aren't able to agree over what the Bible actually says? Speaking as a former evangelical, I remember how I used to think that protestant Christians from a few other churches weren't "real Christians," and I also thought that way of Catholics as well. In fact, I was told in the church that I attended many years ago that Catholics aren't real Christians and they need to be led to the "real Jesus," which is evidently not the Catholic version of Jesus.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

I just asked Alexa and she told me there are over 300,000 churches in America alone. A lot of those churches are independent. There are so many ways to interpret the word "denomination" that it's not worth arguing how many there actually are.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,"

"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

My personal response is this: If only it were that cut and dried, but according to the Bible, it isn't. Matthew 7:21 says, "Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Matthew 25:31–46

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

According to this parable, the "sheep" received eternal life as a reward for their good deeds, which included feeding the hungry, providing water to the thirsty, welcoming a stranger, providing clothing for the needy, and paying visits to the ill or those who were imprisoned. On the other hand, Jesus rebuked the "goats" for failing to feed the hungry, quench the thirst of the thirsty, welcome strangers, clothe the needy, or pay visits to the ill or those in prison. They were berated by Jesus, who then damned them to hell forever. Even though the "goats" were obviously Christians who accepted Jesus as their lord and savior, they lacked the good deeds necessary to receive eternal life, despite Romans 10:9–13, which says that if someone declares with their mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believes in their heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, they will be saved. Furthermore, Ephesians 2:8–9 says, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."

 

[Heyo]

We're keen to deny it, because we've researched it a bit more carefully, and it's propaganda.

@ChristineM, @Exaltist Ethan

I don't care how many Christian dominations there are for this thread (though it would make for an interesting question for another thread). I'd count two churches as different denominations if they answer a theological question differently (while allowing for the other to be still Christian - though not True™ Christians).
But let's not focus on the differences in this thread and try to find the similarities.

 

[Wildswanderer]

They were berated by Jesus, who then damned them to hell forever. Even though the "goats" were obviously Christians who accepted Jesus as their lord and savior,

No, they actually weren't. They thought they were because of their deeds, but they were relying on works for salvation, not Jesus. It wasn't that they didn't do good deeds

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

They did mighty works, but they were not in Christ. The righteous are righteous because of their faith in Jesus alone.

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

 

[Heyo]

The Bible defines who is a Christian. Matt 7:16-27 which includes this

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Am I correctly interpreting your post as a refutation to

But anyways, there is the Nicene Creed and the Apostle's Creed that most denominations swear allegiance to. Most swear by the Bible, and most of those denominations swear by the King James Version of the Bible, although this isn't always true. If you believe Christ is your lord and savior but don't attend church or read the Bible I would still consider yourself a Christian, even if a nominal one.

?

Love that you sourced your opinion with a Bible quote, but, as you are not a Christian, is that dogma in any Christian denomination?

 

[metis]

They thought they were because of their deeds, but they were relying on works for salvation, not Jesus.

Nope, it's the other way around as the Goats didn't do what Jesus commanded us to do.

 

[paarsurrey]

What are, in your opinion, the defining characteristics of a Christian?

There are 41,000+ denominations in Christianity. That fact alone shows that there have to be a lot of differences between them. But are there still communalities left? Has the claim to be a Christian any value any more?
Being an atheist answers exactly one question and nothing more. Does being a Christian tell me more?

Is there any "Christian " out there, please? Right?
What I see, and one would agree, there are misusers** of the word " Christ" while Israelites never used this word they used the name Messiah*, please, right?:

*"The Messiah in Judaism (Hebrew: מָשִׁיחַ, romanized: māšīaḥ) is a savior and liberator figure in Jewish eschatology, who is believed to be the future redeemer of the Jewish people. The concept of messianism originated in Judaism,[1][2] and in the Hebrew Bible a messiah is a king or High Priest traditionally anointed with holy anointing oil.[3]"
Messiah in Judaism - Wikipedia
** Aren't these "Hellenist-Paulines" in the garb of "Christ'-ians", all 40000+ of them . including JWs and the LDS aka Mormons, it transpires, please?
Right?

Regards
_______________
Note: "Jesus did not die a cursed death on the Cross", to atone the sins of anybody, one gets to know from many clues in the Gospels itself, please. Right?

 

[ChristineM]

But let's not focus on the differences in this thread and try to find the similarities.

My view for which i have been told I'm wrong so often by "true" Christians is, if they believe they are Christian then that's good enough for me, they are Christian.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Nope, it's the other way around as the Goats didn't do what Jesus commanded us to do.

Exactly.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Nope, it's the other way around as the Goats didn't do what Jesus commanded us to do.

What is the will of the father?
What is the most important will of the Father? 1 John 3:23 tells us explicitly that it is the will of the Father that we believe in Christ. Notice we are commanded to believe in Christ.

And this is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 1 John 3:23 (NASB)

And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved. Acts 4:12 (NASB)

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works . . . Ephesians 2:8-10a (NASB)

The only people who are going to heaven are those who believe that Jesus is God, died for our sins, returned to life, and because they are sinners respond in repentance and seek God’s forgiveness.

Yes they will do good. But not everyone has the same opportunity to do good. The person that struggles their whole life, just to get up in the morning but truly believes will be rewarded with God's compassion, the same as the one who leads thousands to the cross.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Exactly.

Then why did he send people away who did mighty deeds for him?

 

[dybmh]

From your link;

The following is not a complete list, but aims to provide a comprehensible overview of the diversity among denominations of Christianity, ecumenical organizations, and Christian ideologies not necessarily represented by specific denominations. Only those Christian denominations, ideologies and organizations with Wikipedia articles will be listed in order to ensure that all entries on this list are notable and verifiable.

Honestly, I could care less. The correct answer to 'How many Christian denominations are there?' is 'Lots'.

45000, 4500...even changing the order of magnitude twice and getting to 450 doesn't change that.

Ah. I missed that on the wiki article. Thank you.

However I diagree that 45000 communities with differing beliefs is no different than 450 communities with differing beliefs. World-wide 450 is "a lot"?

 

[Orbit]

This is way more reliable than Wikipedia: Congregational Membership

There are clearly far too many denominations for any one to maintain it is the "real" Christianity.

 

[metis]

What is the will of the father?
What is the most important will of the Father? 1 John 3:23 tells us explicitly that it is the will of the Father that we believe in Christ. Notice we are commanded to believe in Christ.

And this is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 1 John 3:23 (NASB)

And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved. Acts 4:12 (NASB)

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works . . . Ephesians 2:8-10a (NASB)

The only people who are going to heaven are those who believe that Jesus is God, died for our sins, returned to life, and because they are sinners respond in repentance and seek God’s forgiveness.

Yes they will do good. But not everyone has the same opportunity to do good. The person that struggles their whole life, just to get up in the morning but truly believes will be rewarded with God's compassion, the same as the one who leads thousands to the cross.

A lot of words but you still missed the point in your previous post, as the Goats were condemned because they disobeyed Jesus' command to help others in need.

OTOH, an implication of what you had said is what I call "rocking-chair religion", namely just sit back and have nice p.c. thoughts.

 

[metis]

Then why did he send people away who did mighty deeds for him?

Oh, so that absolves us from doing good? So, now I can go out and rob banks as long as someone else does good? What kind of "Christianity" is that???