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What make you think they were NOT honest ?

Altfish

Veteran Member
IF, God doesn't exist at all. Then, all great persons of the history like: Krishna, Muhammad, Jesus, Buddha, Gurus etc. were doing drama ? What make you think, they were NOT honest with what they said and taught to people ?
Honesty isn't the issue.
All those you mention (if they existed) were before Evolution and Modern Science and The Big Bang and Continental Drift, etc, etc
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Honesty isn't the issue.
All those you mention (if they existed) were before Evolution and Modern Science and The Big Bang and Continental Drift, etc, etc
Just out of curiouesity, when in uour understanding did big bang happen?
Buddha, jesus and Muhammad was all on earth within the last 2500 years, so if big bang happen after them? Not sure i understand your thoughts
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
Just out of curiouesity, when in uour understanding did big bang happen?
Buddha, jesus and Muhammad was all on earth within the last 2500 years, so if big bang happen after them? Not sure i understand your thoughts
OK, I should have said when the Big Bang was first postulated ie when Hubble first described the expansion of space (c1930 IIRC)
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
IF, God doesn't exist at all. Then, all great persons of the history like: Krishna, Muhammad, Jesus, Buddha, Gurus etc. were doing drama ? What make you think, they were NOT honest with what they said and taught to people ?
Theism is largely irrelevant in Buddhism.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
So we can agree on that the known prophets and buddhas from our history was here long time after the big bang then :)
Did you not read my clarification post???
The Big Bang may have happened many eons ago but was not known about to science until about 1930. Well after the prophets allegedly existed
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
All I feel like saying at this time is that contemporary assessments of this question say a lot more about our contemporary culture and thinking than it does about the past.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
IF, God doesn't exist at all. Then, all great persons of the history like: Krishna, Muhammad, Jesus, Buddha, Gurus etc. were doing drama ? What make you think, they were NOT honest with what they said and taught to people ?

First of all, who is making that claim, they were all lying / being dishonest?
I'm guessing it's nobody and it's something you made up or misunderstood.


There's more then just being dishonest as a reason for why inaccurate / false stories see the light of day.
They could also just be mistaken for whatever reason.


As for me, I usually operate from the (perhaps naive) position that people generally are sincere.
But sincere people can be wrong as well. Somebody can honestly believe something, while being incorrect in that belief.

And there are a lot of ways on how this can happen, especially when it comes to these types of claims.
People are honestly mistaken all the time for a wide variety of reasons, ranging from simply misinterpreting certain events to outright hallucinations. It's not exactly rare... 2 in 100 people for example, will be dealing with psychotic style episodes or symptoms at some point in their life.

Off course, people lie as well. Also for a wide variety of reasons. To be interesting, to be the center of attention, to gain some type of benefit from it, to gather a following,... there are lots of plausible motivations.


Here's the thing though....
Claims about supernatural things are extremely extra-ordinary. And none of them have extra-ordinary evidence to back them up. Or any evidence at all, for that matter.

So on the one hand, we have countless of examples and precedents of people being mistaken or lying.
On the other hand, we have zero of examples of confirmed supernatural activity of any kind.

Apply occam's razor and what do you get?
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Especially back in a world where such things were almost completely misunderstood.

Where almost everything unexplainable was attributed to supernatural beings, gods, demons, spirits, angels, whatever.
Tom

Yes. to the point of things that we today consider mundane. Like tides, storms, lunar cycles, sunsets, lightning, thunder, mountains, earthquakes, volcano's, hurricanes, shooting stars, meteor impacts, tsunami's,...........................

I can only imagine what it must have been like 3000 years ago when seeing a volcano explode or seeing the night sky light up due to a small space rock burning up in the atmosphere.
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
It's My Birthday!
But as everyone else these "great" persons could have been mistaken, misinterpret things, been misunderstood as well. But I think they were sincere in their beliefs and probably thought that they could change the time in which the lived to something better and most likely they inspired hope for people.
Yes, I agree with your last sentence. Some of them the people mentioned it is also hard to know what they actually taught, like for instance Buddha and Krishna. I am a Baha'i, so I believe the essence of what they thought has been passed down nonetheless. Gurus can have some good insights sometimes, but they can be mistaken.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
IF, God doesn't exist at all. Then, all great persons of the history like: Krishna, Muhammad, Jesus, Buddha, Gurus etc. were doing drama ? What make you think, they were NOT honest with what they said and taught to people ?

Unless you can sit down and talk with Krishna, Muhammad, Jesus, and Buddha you really have no idea what these individuals honestly believed or taught. All you have are accounts from other people claiming what they honestly believed and taught. If you've ever played the game of telephone in grade school then you know how a message can get completely distorted in the mere minutes it takes to whisper the message among a class room of children. Just imagine how distorted a message gets after centuries
 

chinu

chinu
Unless you can sit down and talk with Krishna, Muhammad, Jesus, and Buddha you really have no idea what these individuals honestly believed or taught. All you have are accounts from other people claiming what they honestly believed and taught. If you've ever played the game of telephone in grade school then you know how a message can get completely distorted in the mere minutes it takes to whisper the message among a class room of children. Just imagine how distorted a message gets after centuries

I think your are talking something like this thread Searching "Truth" in history. ?
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
IF, God doesn't exist at all. Then, all great persons of the history like: Krishna, Muhammad, Jesus, Buddha, Gurus etc. were doing drama ? What make you think, they were NOT honest with what they said and taught to people ?
It's not always a question of honesty ─ if there was an historical Jesus he was raised as a circumcised Jew speaking Aramaic (rather than Greek, then the language of learning). Culturally, for him and for everyone else, there were gradations of divinity everywhere, from Caesar right up to Zeus, from the Temple up to the Jewish god in whom he believed. Atheists weren't his target, his fellow Jews were, and the best guess is that his message was that of John the Baptist, Get Ready, the End Times are Coming in Your Lifetime! I assume he, or John, or the others, would say that because they thought it was probably true. (On the other hand, the threats of burning in hell are straight out of the sales manual, much more cynical.)

Gautama Buddha was apparently agnostic about the gods. In the Kalama Sutta, regarded (I read) as very early so likely authentic, he says you live a moral life because it's the best path, and allows you to contented. And should there be an afterlife, it can't hurt either.

Muhammad is difficult to reconstruct as an historical figure. He was apparently a military leader. Being skilled at conquest is simultaneously admired at a tribal level and questionable as a moral stance when proclaiming a God of All.

(I'm not well-informed about Krishna. I'm a Ganesha man at heart.)

But in short, each is a product of a particular culture, time and place.
 

MNoBody

Well-Known Member
IF, God doesn't exist at all. Then, all great persons of the history like: Krishna, Muhammad, Jesus, Buddha, Gurus etc. were doing drama ? What make you think, they were NOT honest with what they said and taught to people ?
no beef with those cats, it is their fan club that is the trouble, bunch of impersonators who wouldn't know the original if it stared 'em in the face,
where were you when I was naked and alone and in prison or in exile he said, ......really i don't know you guys.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
IF, God doesn't exist at all. Then, all great persons of the history like: Krishna, Muhammad, Jesus, Buddha, Gurus etc. were doing drama ? What make you think, they were NOT honest with what they said and taught to people ?
Well, Krishna is a myth. Buddha was nice, presented a new scenario. Gurus, how far back you want to go in history? Many are myths. Yeah, most believed what was the prevalent theory in their time, God, soul, heaven, hell, etc. Greeks and Indians thought outside the box too. Of the Gurus prior to 20th Century, most of them (I do not say all) were well-meaning. But one cannot say that of the gurus in 20 Century or current age. One has to check very thoroughly.
About Jesus and Mohammad, they were after their own acceptance and importance. The first one failed to establish the 'Kingdom of God' in his life time, the other enjoyed his kingdom for a short time. I do not even believe that Mohammad believed what all he was saying. It was all for public consumption.
 
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BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
IF, God doesn't exist at all. Then, all great persons of the history like: Krishna, Muhammad, Jesus, Buddha, Gurus etc. were doing drama ? What make you think, they were NOT honest with what they said and taught to people ?

I think some religious leaders were/are honest, some are insane, and some are deceived.

How else to explain the Bible/Qu'ran contradiction? Specifically speaking of Jesus, the Bible says He is the Son of God. Specifically speaking of Jesus, the Qu'ran says He is not God.

An eastern mystic can live with this contradiction better than any western rationalist. Either Jesus didn't exist or did, if He did/does, He's the Son of God or not.

The Bible shows Jesus's sincerity IMO. The Bible proclaims anyone who trusts Jesus's death and resurrection as payment for sin has eternal life.
 
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